7.1.0 Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

[Chuk]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ago/simple


Anybody know what I am doing wrong? i am only pulling like 220k the only thing I can think of is maybe my artifact lvl is too low? I don't have to icecicle golden trait yet, but i can't imagine that alone is holding me back that much.

This build relies heavily on mastery and critical. Also, you need higher item level to get the most of it (it begins to be really good past 870 ilvl correctly itemized) You have decent crit, but your mastery is way too low. Your trinkets don't help either.

Try to aim for more mastery and get stat sticks with intelect / mastery or intelect / crit.


On a different note, is this build being massively nerfed on PTR? I just simmed this build with nightly PTR SimC and the DPS loss is massive. Guess the frostbolt damage loss really hurts this build a lot.

[Rikx]

This build relies heavily on mastery and critical. Also, you need higher item level to get the most of it (it begins to be really good past 870 ilvl correctly itemized) You have decent crit, but your mastery is way too low. Your trinkets don't help either.

I'd be hesitant about claiming critical is heavily relied upon. I'm a bit stuck on redoing the RoP APL, but with the APL we've been using (which just appears to drop RoP whenever it pleases), there appears to be a relation between haste and crit. Something along the lines of "haste should be 2/3 of crit rating", but that is just a guess.

You can easily see it if you play around with SimC yourself, by adding and changing gear_haste_rating and gear_crit_rating.

[hellfreeze]

I'm a bit stuck on redoing the RoP APL, but with the APL we've been using (which just appears to drop RoP whenever it pleases)

The current APL should be holding ROP for use with IV/CTTC. The ROP between IVs doesn't matter when it is used. There is no real advantage to syncing it with GS because ROP_FBs = ROP_GS beacuse both benefit from it and add to biger GSs.

[Rikx]

The current APL should be holding ROP for use with IV/CTTC. The ROP between IVs doesn't matter when it is used. There is no real advantage to syncing it with GS because ROP_FBs = ROP_GS beacuse both benefit from it and add to biger GSs.

I didn't see anything that suggested it was holding it to use with IV, because it was assuming it'd be up as long as possible via TV.

Aside from that... RoPs between IVs should matter, because GS will double-dip on Rune of Power. It'll get a bigger icicle, and then that icicle damage will get increased again by RoP.

Some rough napkinmath, assuming 100% mastery for simplicity:
Regular 5FB+1GS rotation = 1800% spellpower total
RoP boosted 5FB+1GS rotation = 3487.5% spellpower
together, 5287.5% spellpower over two rotations

2 regular Frostbolts + 3 RoP Frostbolts + 1 RoP GS = 3172.5% spellpower
2 RoP Frostbolts + 3 Regular Frostbolts + 1 Regular GS = 2010% spellpower
together, 5182.5% spellpower over two rotations

Unfortunately, as Zulandia pointed out on Discord when I brought it up, SimC is not properly accounting for versatility and possibly other buffs in Glacial Spike. At the very least, this should throw off stat weights for versatility something horribly.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3187

[hellfreeze]

Are you talking about the GS APL in this thread, because it does sync ROP with IV. All the testing I did with syncing the ROP between IVs had little effect, so the APL just uses it when it is a bout to cap unless IV is about to come off CD.

[Rikx]

Are you talking about the GS APL in this thread, because it does sync ROP with IV. All the testing I did with syncing the ROP between IVs had little effect, so the APL just uses it when it is a bout to cap unless IV is about to come off CD.

Yeah. I'm still a novice when it comes to this stuff. After reviewing, I see where it synced up now. For some reason the cooldown.icy_veins.remains<cast_time wasn't making sense to me.

[Nanogiant]

On a different note, is this build being massively nerfed on PTR? I just simmed this build with nightly PTR SimC and the DPS loss is massive. Guess the frostbolt damage loss really hurts this build a lot.

They removed Frost Armor (-8% haste). It's a catastrophe to say the least. I honestly don't see how Frost can even be significant or viable in 7.1.5. If I am wrong, please say I am wrong.

Frost Bolt damage in itself shouldn't be the problem since they buffed Glacial Spike damage. If I calculated it right, we would do more damage just considering Icicles + Glacial 7.1.5 vs. Live.

[fungames22]

On a different note, is this build being massively nerfed on PTR? I just simmed this build with nightly PTR SimC and the DPS loss is massive. Guess the frostbolt damage loss really hurts this build a lot.

They removed Frost Armor (-8% haste). It's a catastrophe to say the least. I honestly don't see how Frost can even be significant or viable in 7.1.5. If I am wrong, please say I am wrong.

Frost Bolt damage in itself shouldn't be the problem since they buffed Glacial Spike damage. If I calculated it right, we would do more damage just considering Icicles + Glacial 7.1.5 vs. Live.

This is horrible! - thoughts on switching to a high crit lonely winter build with IF instead of BC and RoP in 7.1.5? I think stat priority will be int>crit>haste>mastery=verse and crit up to 52% then haste becomes better.

[poorprae]

Rotation-related questions, go easy on me.

1. What is the priority when ROP is active? GS and FB 4-5 times?

2. If BF procs, is there a specific time to use Flurry or just asap?

3. If I have 1 or more FoF, I use it outside of ROP, correct? If not, when is the correct time?

In a nutshell, my confusion lies in when - outside of ROP - to use FoF IL and BF Flurry.

[Potaetoe]

Rotation-related questions, go easy on me.

1. What is the priority when ROP is active? GS and FB 4-5 times?

2. If BF procs, is there a specific time to use Flurry or just asap?

3. If I have 1 or more FoF, I use it outside of ROP, correct? If not, when is the correct time?

In a nutshell, my confusion lies in when - outside of ROP - to use FoF IL and BF Flurry.

Priority in RoP is probably something like, go in with 5 icicles-> RoP GS -> FB spam -> Flurry when it's available -> GS if you can.

2) Brainfreeze procs are something you should always use at the end of a FB. If you can try to line up FB -> Flurry -> Chain Reaction at 2+ stacks and IL (probably worth)... maybe... maybe not. Don't believe the APL does it.

3) Use FoF only during movement where you can't frostbolt.... so practically never.

[poorprae]

Does GS->Flurry (Flurry hits before GS at >23 yards...?) do anything for GS's damage?

Though my gear is above average, I find that my GS is only hitting for 1.7-1.8 million max.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/us/s ... raelicious" target="_blank

[hasublade]

Any idea how he did this?

[poorprae]

Rotation-related questions, go easy on me.
Priority in RoP is probably something like, go in with 5 icicles-> RoP GS -> FB spam -> Flurry when it's available -> GS if you can.

2) Brainfreeze procs are something you should always use at the end of a FB. If you can try to line up FB -> Flurry -> Chain Reaction at 2+ stacks and IL (probably worth)... maybe... maybe not. Don't believe the APL does it.

Assuming I'm in a non-IV ROP, after I use GS and I have a BF proc, what do I do?

You mentioned it is better to FB->Flurry. So, after I GS in ROP, do I FB ~3 times and Flurry?

[fungames22]

Hey guys, awesome thread - Anyone have sims for infernal writ? it is not listed anywhere in top 20 on our trinket sims? I'm sure it would be higher...

[fungames22]

Any idea how he did this?

I hit 9M all the time with 70% mastery and about the same amount of intellect and un optimal crits on my frostbolts during raid. He probably got 5 crits on the target dummies, plus he has 90% mastery and a 5% damage ring. Its feasible.

[poorprae]

70% mastery? WOWZER. Guess I really am behind at 57% unbuffed.

ADD: Question about BF procs. Wouldn't you use it (Flurry) first and follow it up with GS?

BF proc enables Winter's Chill for Flurry. Would that not increase GS's chance to crit by +50% thanks to Shatter?

[Norrinir]

70% mastery? WOWZER. Guess I really am behind at 57% unbuffed.

ADD: Question about BF procs. Wouldn't you use it (Flurry) first and follow it up with GS?

BF proc enables Winter's Chill for Flurry. Would that not increase GS's chance to crit by +50% thanks to Shatter?

Glacial Spike is too fast. You'd have to use Shimmer to do this. And the situations in which you would really want to do this are also the same situations where you're standing in Rune of Power, so it's not really an option.

[poorprae]

Thanks for the reply. A few more questions:

#1. When is it best to squeeze in a BF proc? During ROP or outside of ROP? If outside, should I use FB->BF or does it not matter?

#2. Any reason to use FOF IL? The SimC profile says I should be using it, but I don't know when to do so.

[Daerron]

Shouldnt optimal ROP rotation look like this: ROP>FB>FB>FB>FB>FB>GS (with enouth haste to finish GS cast) or FB>ROP>FB>FB>FB>FB>GS (with no external haste)? Reason is simple: double dipping on icicle damage. Say you have no crit (simplicity sake) and cast frostbolt for 100k damage. Also say u have 100% mastery, so 100k is saved as icicle. So with 5 casts u save 500k which then hit as GS + some spelldamage bonus, say another 500k, resulting in 1 mil hit. But if u cast your FB in ROP and each FB hits for 150k, u deposit 750k icile damage and this damage is again multiplyed by ROP when GS damage is calculated : (750+500)*1,5=1,875 mil GS.
If otherwise u cast rune first, then GS, and then FB for the rest of it your first GS woul do 500+500)*1,5=1,5 mil and second (due to bonus icicle damage) would do 750+500=1,25 mil, so overall bonus is 750k versus 875 k in first ROP rotation. This is not 100% accurate math, but u get the idea.

[Katsumi]

Hey guys,

This build is a blast to play, thanks for all the information this thread is providing. I've tried it in high M+ where we pull smaller groups with cc and so far the results have been quite positive, especially in HoV, MoS and NL. The RNG element does not seem to be an issue over the course of a full dungeon, but something else might be.

Due to this week's affixes our tank starts to kite when the mobs enrage and the debuff stacks are getting too high. However, the root that GS applies has been rather dangerous for our melee dps. They get whacked as soon as the freeze procs and the tank is no longer in melee range, something that took us quite few frontline deaths to realize in the first place.

Any thoughts on this? I'd hate to play this style only in raids :/