7.1.0 Glacial Spike T19M Profile and Spec Explanation

[Mage]

I came back to test GS build with a slightly different set of gear and I have found a sweet spot that works for me. As I previously posted, dumping everything into mastery resulted in extreme frustration when the correct spells did not crit at the correct time (rop+IV).

So I went with more balanced stats and they turned out to be pretty much spot on as shown in the reforge plots:



Crit 9217
Haste 3445
Mastery 7724
Versatility 247

Funny enough - the worst weight of above stats is currently....INT

Standard TV build still sims 20k higher for me, but in real fights it is much, much harder to approach the simmed max with it. Ice floes turns out to be quite insignificant when FBs are 1.1s under IV, so movement is a bitch. Meanwhile an ice floed GS allows to cover quite some distance. Another bonus is splitting ice 24/7.
Now its time to test it on the PTR.

EDIT: as expected, with the removal of 8% haste on PTR the spec is pretty much dead. If not tuned much higher, it will be rock bottom of the lists on everything except 2 target stacked cleave.

[Nanogiant]

Is there any possibility you US players can raise some awareness to the haste nerf in regards to the Glacial Spike build on the 7.1.5 PTR forums...? Considering this build is not that popular I think the consequences to the GS build might pass the devs by or something. I love this spec and I want to play it in 7.1.5... Or I need to go Arcane since my gear is very Mastery based.

[Jics]

Hey, firstly thanks OP on this interesting spec.

I've been tinkering around with sims and i know we should include ice lance in our rotation, however, i didnt expect it to be a huge contributor to damage. It simmed for me to be my 2nd largest damage output (i.e GS > IL > FB)

i've tried a few variations, chain reaction @ 3, 2, 1 and 0 ice lance cast. casting 0 ice lance was the lowest dps of all variations. IL-ing @ 3 stacks was the highest.
In all variations, the % output was roughly 20%.

Also, BC > LW in all situations, even removing casting IL from APL. (This could indicate it was not due to welly's jet for IL procs)

Didnt expect IL to play a huge role in this spec's damage, is everyone else the same? or am i doing something wrong?

On a side note, crit simmed highest for me in most situations.

[Mage]

Removing ice lances and frozen orb from the APL nets me the highest DPS.

[Katsumi]

A quick follow-up on the issue of targets getting frozen while being kited and then killing the melees: a different set of tank/melee dps got rid of the problem

With regards to the question above: I'm also a bit confused. After re-reading the entire thread I'm still unclear if I should use ice lances on 2 targets. I'm trying to optimize the spec for high M+ double target cleave where the results so far have been fantastic. Any thoughts?

[Xaximbo]

Hello. Has someone calculated the stat weights for Pawn on this build?

To be honest i feel like with this build Ilvl>stats as i think all are quite valuable and the gap between their value isn't as high as in other specs.

If anyone has the figures please share, tyvm.

[Saróx]

Xaximbo, you gotta do your own simcrafting inorder to get propper stat weights.

In aprox 90% of the current builds for classes, stats changes as you get more of it. So sim your char, and use your own "Pawn weights" for the best result. And if you dont, then the point of using pawn instead of a gut feeling, kinda dies eventually.

[Cauldron]

Yesterday I've tested for the first time GS build into mythic EN. Not a very lucky run for me, I've died on Nythendra and so the log is partial.

On trash, after nythrendra and before Ursoc, only cleaving with glacial spike gave me a solid and reliable 400-500k. Not the million i can make with fire but it's not an aoe spec so I didn't expected more.

On Ursoc, which we were progressing on, I had the chance of a couple try as GS before being forced by raid leader to switch back to fire.

Here's the log of it: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dt ... amage-done

Was my first attempt on it so probably I did many mistakes, like not cleaving correctly etc. Still was impressed by the huge amount of damage GS can put out even if I was not geared for it (I mean relic wise). Because I want to put more effort on it I've a couple question:

1) Frost Legendaries didn't seem to change that much, number wise, the output of the spec. I'm asking this cause I'm keeping arcane as loot spec as insurance for 7.1.5 and night hold.

2) Artefact: because we spend all the time just frostbiting and glacial spiking, is there a real reason to push past the 26 points investment?

3) Are the current 7.1.5 proposed modifications really killing this spec? Or is just a "the sky is falling" moment?

Thanks in advance for the answers, and thx for the build you proposed here.

[Forminasage]

2) Artefact: because we spend all the time just frostbiting and glacial spiking, is there a real reason to push past the 26 points investment?

If you're serious about sticking with Frost, the 5% damage buff will be hugely important in the short term.

If you're waiting until Nighthold to commit that much, no. You'll probably want to wait and see what 7.1.5 and 7.2 bring.

[Cauldron]

2) Artefact: because we spend all the time just frostbiting and glacial spiking, is there a real reason to push past the 26 points investment?

If you're serious about sticking with Frost, the 5% damage buff will be hugely important in the short term.

If you're waiting until Nighthold to commit that much, no. You'll probably want to wait and see what 7.1.5 and 7.2 bring.

Thanks Forminasage!

Basically I want to invest seriously on it till is at least on par (hope even more) than fire for single target. That's because to be able to use it in raids have to convince the raid leader. Can't do with poor performance.
If I can achieve that without spending too much AP that's better. Cause I'm still working for my 33 point in fire.

So it should be safe to stop at 26 and continue with fire till at least 5% and then back to frost.

[Rikx]

Thanks Forminasage!

Basically I want to invest seriously on it till is at least on par (hope even more) than fire for single target. That's because to be able to use it in raids have to convince the raid leader. Can't do with poor performance.
If I can achieve that without spending too much AP that's better. Cause I'm still working for my 33 point in fire.

So it should be safe to stop at 26 and continue with fire till at least 5% and then back to frost.

Forminasage is correct that the 5% damage buff is quite nice and if you're unsure, wait until we know exactly what 7.1.5 and 7.2 will bring.

However, it is not "safe to stop at 26", because it is incorrect that we do nothing except frostbolt and GS.

We use Frost Orb. We use Ice Lance if you have Chain Reaction. The only artifact trait that's basically useless is, I'd say, the crit% on blizzard.

(nota bene: The above for Frost Orb and Ice Lance is only true when Rune of Power or Icy Veins is not active.)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LB ... hm#fight=4

(don't make fun of Stayples, he was practically playing without use of his eyes)

[Cauldron]

Forminasage is correct that the 5% damage buff is quite nice and if you're unsure, wait until we know exactly what 7.1.5 and 7.2 will bring.

However, it is not "safe to stop at 26", because it is incorrect that we do nothing except frostbolt and GS.

We use Frost Orb. We use Ice Lance if you have Chain Reaction. The only artifact trait that's basically useless is, I'd say, the crit% on blizzard.

(nota bene: The above for Frost Orb and Ice Lance is only true when Rune of Power or Icy Veins is not active.)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LB ... hm#fight=4

(don't make fun of Stayples, he was practically playing without use of his eyes)

Ok, so 26 is a soft spot for basic GS build, while more is good for the accessory spells to be used outside RoP.
I was unsure because reading the whole topic, couple days ago, I understood is not so certain that using Orb and Chain reaction is beneficial. But prob I just remember badly

I hope 26 point, a more than reasonable goal to reach with this level of AK, is good enough to dish out some good numbers. Otherwise i'll be forced on using it in LFR while farming defile runes till I improve it.

EDIT [Toying with simcraft]

Using the below profile to test the trinkets option I currently have it seems the int stat stick (if darkmoon can be mentioned as one of them) is not better than aran trinket. At least for me. is it correct? Or I made something wrong with the simmed profile?

Code: Select all

mage="KR Lone Twist+Swarm" origin="https://eu.api.battle.net/wow/character/chamber-of-aspects/Krarth/advanced" thumbnail="http://eu.battle.net/static-render/eu/chamber-of-aspects/44/127766828-avatar.jpg" level=110 race=blood_elf role=spell position=back professions=tailoring=800/enchanting=787 talents=3123122 artifact=53:0:0:0:0:783:1:784:3:785:3:786:3:787:3:788:3:791:3:794:1:797:1:798:1:1296:1 spec=frost # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character. # It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable, # while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps. # Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs. # SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists. # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only. actions.precombat=flask,type=flask_of_the_whispered_pact actions.precombat+=/food,type=nightborne_delicacy_platter actions.precombat+=/augmentation,type=defiled actions.precombat+=/water_elemental actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/mirror_image actions.precombat+=/potion,name=potion_of_prolonged_power actions.precombat+=/ebonbolt # Executed every time the actor is available. actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react actions+=/time_warp,if=(time=0&buff.bloodlust.down)|(buff.bloodlust.down&equipped.132410) actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions+=/blizzard,if=(buff.zannesu_journey.stack>4|buff.zannesu_journey.remains<cast_time+1)&equipped.133970 actions+=/flurry,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&prev_gcd.frostbolt actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react>0&buff.chain_reaction.react>2&(equipped.138140|equipped.132411) actions+=/frozen_orb actions+=/glacial_spike actions+=/frostbolt actions.cooldowns=rune_of_power,if=cooldown.icy_veins.remains<cast_time|charges_fractional>1.9&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>10|buff.icy_veins.up|target.time_to_die.remains+5<charges_fractional*10 actions.cooldowns+=/icy_veins,if=buff.icy_veins.down actions.cooldowns+=/mirror_image actions.cooldowns+=/use_item,slot=neck actions.cooldowns+=/use_item,slot=trinket2 actions.cooldowns+=/blood_fury actions.cooldowns+=/berserking actions.cooldowns+=/arcane_torrent actions.cooldowns+=/potion,name=potion_of_prolonged_power head=darcklis_dragonfire_diadem,id=132863,bonus_id=1811/3458 neck=sorcerous_shadowruby_pendant,id=130233,bonus_id=1751/689/600/670,gems=150crit,enchant=mark_of_the_hidden_satyr shoulders=ancient_dreamwoven_mantle,id=139191,bonus_id=1805/1492/3336 back=shadowfeather_shawl,id=136977,bonus_id=3418/1808/1532/3337,gems=200int,enchant=200int chest=maddening_robe_of_secrets,id=139193,bonus_id=1805/1487 tabard=tabard_of_the_kirin_tor,id=43157 wrists=snowdrift_bracers,id=141428,bonus_id=3466/1472 hands=silken_bloodscent_gloves,id=133609,bonus_id=3413/1517/3337 waist=pliable_spider_silk_cinch,id=138217,bonus_id=1805/43/1487 legs=ragged_horrorweave_leggings,id=139190,bonus_id=1805/1502/3337 feet=slippers_of_heedless_sacrifice,id=134419,bonus_id=3414/1808/1507/1813,gems=150crit finger1=vastly_oversized_ring,id=141580,bonus_id=1808/1502,gems=150crit,enchant=200crit finger2=gnawed_thumb_ring,id=134526,bonus_id=3412/1512/3336,enchant=200crit trinket1=twisting_wind,id=139323,bonus_id=1806/1517/3337 trinket2=swarming_plaguehive,id=139321,bonus_id=1806/1808/1502,gems=150crit main_hand=ebonchill,id=128862,bonus_id=731,gem_id=141274/137547/141257/0,relic_id=3432:1512:3337/3410:1522:3337/3473:1502:1674/0 copy="KR Lone Dark+Swarm" trinket1=,id=128709,bonus_id=596/1512 copy="KR Lone Aran+Swarm" trinket1=,id=142157,bonus_id=1477/3453 copy="KR Lone Sinew+Swarm" trinket1=,id=139326,bonus_id=1487/1807

[Rikx]

Ok, so 26 is a soft spot for basic GS build, while more is good for the accessory spells to be used outside RoP.
I was unsure because reading the whole topic, couple days ago, I understood is not so certain that using Orb and Chain reaction is beneficial. But prob I just remember badly

I hope 26 point, a more than reasonable goal to reach with this level of AK, is good enough to dish out some good numbers. Otherwise i'll be forced on using it in LFR while farming defile runes till I improve it.

Not sure why you're calling IL and FO "accessory spells". They do damage as well. And really, if you're able to plan ahead you can dump IL with Chain Reaction 3 during times you have to move.

And really I'd go with 27 as a "soft spot" if anything. Chain Reaction isn't bad at all.

But if you like it, put AP into it in your free time. You're going to want to run either Fire or regular Frost on mythic Cenarius anyway, so you can't completely abandon those.

[Potaetoe]

Just so people are aware, I will be working on the GS APL with the legion-mage-dev simc to see what new optimizations will be required. I'm assuming there will be gigantic changes in stat priorities as well as rotation. Hopefully (and this is just hope) Glacial Spike will be more akin to how frost should be played. This may mean it's not viable. But that's a different issue entirely.

[Rikx]

EDIT [Toying with simcraft]

Using the below profile to test the trinkets option I currently have it seems the int stat stick (if darkmoon can be mentioned as one of them) is not better than aran trinket. At least for me. is it correct? Or I made something wrong with the simmed profile?

It's not an unexpected result. Aran's Relaxing Ruby is a very strong trinket.

Just so people are aware, I will be working on the GS APL with the legion-mage-dev simc to see what new optimizations will be required. I'm assuming there will be gigantic changes in stat priorities as well as rotation.

Nice. Btw, I finished my modification to the RoP usage (which should automatically adjust when to use it based on how quickly you cast). It improved my personal simming dps, but it wasn't improving Hellfreeze's - I think because the stat distribution will need to be changed slightly. My desktop at home is running the reforge plots right now. (fingers crossed that simc doesn't crash again)

If you're interested, I can send you my results and APL in about 3-4 hours.

[Cauldron]

Yes Rikx, I would love to see the results of your tests.

And, is there any video or log of people using this build? I would love to see it, but could not find anything so far.

[Rikx]

SimC crashed when I was at work.

I'll be working on it some more the couple hours I have before raid tonight.

And Cauldron, I already linked a log where I was using GS.

[Ventia]

Does anyone have a PAWN string for this build?

[Diawo]

Has there been any further testing of this spec? I love the playstyle of it. Have you had any more success perfecting the rotation?

[Rikx]

Has there been any further testing of this spec? I love the playstyle of it. Have you had any more success perfecting the rotation?

Yes and no. Potaetoe has been focusing on the PTR data, and I think Hellfreeze has been as well. My personal testing and alterations has increased my sim dps but has not yet beaten Hellfreeze's sim.

Then again I've been busy with a lot of other stuff so I haven't been able to put that much time into it lately.