Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

[Potaetoe]

Will this be updated for 7.2.5?
So yes wen are you gona update it ?
right wen 7.2.5 hits or a week after ?
And woult/ coult you also say than if this spec woult still be beter dps than gs ?
as i like to get more numbers out to be fair

thanks alot

I am not thingy, but when he updated for 7.2 it was a little bit after 7.2 was released. So it's probably best to assume it'll be updated a little bit after 7.2.5 (as long as he's still playing, afaik he is).

[thingy]

I try to update it slightly after the patch is released in order to be sure things are correct. It's currently too early in the PTR build to know what's going to happen so I'm afraid you'll have to hold tight in anticipation like the rest of us.

[Detoxx]

Do you have a link to your WA string?

[Rulke]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

[thecool85]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

Based on my experience, which granted is anecdotal, I don't munch FoF during IV regardless of my equipped legendaries, or outside of IV if I have bracers equipped. If neither of those conditions are met, I'll go ahead and munch the FoF to cast the brain freezed flurry.

My reasoning for doing this is that between my clarity/flurry relics and the 2 piece, I have a fairly high chance of proccing a very hard hitting flurry. So when the FoF proc doesn't carry with it the additional benefit of extending IV or the bracer buff, I assume it's a damage loss to cast it and waste a potential flurry.

[broedrost]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

I usually go brain freeze first if I have to refresh chain reactions and use FoF if I don't. dunno if that makes sense but it seems to work fine for me

[Visk]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

I personally believe that it is better to munch the BF proc no matter if you have IV on or not. I do this simply because IL is your highest damaging ability and using FoF > FB> BF > IL gives you the damage from 2x IL, 1x FB and 1 BF, and if you do FB > BF > IL then you simply loose 1x IL in the whole thing which should be a dps and damage loss.

I am not an expert, but that is what I think should be the best option logically and also gave best results practically, and I have also seen from top frost mage POV vods.

[sawbossnl]

http://i.imgur.com/qnJg9sd.png" target="_blank

I was wonderiing with the change to tv and all what will be the best relics in 7.2.5 you guys think ? I though clarity for the brain freez proc to reduce the cd of our frozen orb by alot. But on the other hand veins woult also be perfect for shorter cd on our biggest dps cd. And than we have ice lance our biggest dammage spell. I was wondering what you guys think what woult be best in 7.2.5 and what is the best at this point ? As i hearing people doing more than 2M+ ice lances and im only doing 1.6 mil atm.
I got 2x frozen veins and 1x clarity not realy jigh il ones frost 890clarity and frost frozen veins 895 my arcane is rather nice 910 frozen veins

But yea i was wondering shoult i change to ice lance for more dammage or keep it like this?

[Xinder]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

I personally believe that it is better to munch the BF proc no matter if you have IV on or not. I do this simply because IL is your highest damaging ability and using FoF > FB> BF > IL gives you the damage from 2x IL, 1x FB and 1 BF, and if you do FB > BF > IL then you simply loose 1x IL in the whole thing which should be a dps and damage loss.

I am not an expert, but that is what I think should be the best option logically and also gave best results practically, and I have also seen from top frost mage POV vods.

Without knowing who you've been watching, I would assume that most, if not all, of those top frost mages have the gloves. From everything I've ever read on the subject when this question comes up time and time again is that you much FoF when you aren't under IV or are under IV but don't have the gloves. IF you have the gloves and are under IV then you much the BF because of the chance of muching your free FoF from the gloves is too high a risk to take. That was how I had always been interpreting it anyway.

[Burnthemall]

A question I have, that i've not really found a direct answer to is the following situation; You're casting a frostbolt directly after a previous, the previous frostbolt has procced both a Brain Freeze and a Fingers of frost. When do I munch, and not? This is of course, assuming double Ice lance. I've seen multiple different approaches to it, where it's either "If you have both bracers and gloves, FoF dump, then use the Brain Freeze" and if you have Neither, don't. However with say one of them, or assuming a double icelance is possible how does this change? In my case i run Gloves + Ring, although for some fights and mythic+'s i'm switching out of the gloves as well. Is it secure to take the approach of munching the FoF's, or is there a time with this setup I should be dumping them first if it procs during Chain frostbolts?

Sorry for the wall of debatable gibberish, however any assistance with this specific scenario is appreciated!

I personally believe that it is better to munch the BF proc no matter if you have IV on or not. I do this simply because IL is your highest damaging ability and using FoF > FB> BF > IL gives you the damage from 2x IL, 1x FB and 1 BF, and if you do FB > BF > IL then you simply loose 1x IL in the whole thing which should be a dps and damage loss.

I am not an expert, but that is what I think should be the best option logically and also gave best results practically, and I have also seen from top frost mage POV vods.

Without knowing who you've been watching, I would assume that most, if not all, of those top frost mages have the gloves. From everything I've ever read on the subject when this question comes up time and time again is that you much FoF when you aren't under IV or are under IV but don't have the gloves. IF you have the gloves and are under IV then you much the BF because of the chance of muching your free FoF from the gloves is too high a risk to take. That was how I had always been interpreting it anyway.

I think it is better to keep BF when you are under IV/BL (or trinket proc) and shoot all your IL before casting BF even if you do not have gloves. Because you will get extra double IL to BF. When you do not have enough haste for double IL there is always question whether shoot IL first than BF and get extra IL. The reason is that you can get extra BF while you are shooting your IL (FoF) = waste BF. We cannot forget the chain reaction stacks and your IF talents and your stack from bracers, so there is a lot of factor that can force you to munch IL or BF when you have not enough haste for double IL.

[habecan]

The guide and comments here suggest that I should dumb FoF procs before using BF proc but SimC rotation doesn't do that. Do you know why?

[Manito]

I think you should never delay BF proc (cast it asap and munch FoF proc) UNLESS you are cleaving or you have 2-3 FoF procs and you are able to double lance (basically unless you are wasting more than 1 shatter IL or if u got an extra target to cleave with splitting ice). That being said, BF proc helps to keep chain reaction stacks going, and those are huge so you can afford wasting 1 FoF proc, but loosing a BF proc is alot worse.

[Katsumi]

Too much "I think", "I believe", "I assume" in here. Data please, otherwise it's hard move beyond speculation. Also, wasn't this settled by OP already?

[habecan]

Let's say I have a BF and a FoF proc.
I use FoF, then cast Frostbolt.
This FB gave a FoF proc, should I spend it and cast another FB? OR should I not care about that FoF and cast Flurry and cast IL?

[Xinder]

Let's say I have a BF and a FoF proc.
I use FoF, then cast Frostbolt.
This FB gave a FoF proc, should I spend it and cast another FB? OR should I not care about that FoF and cast Flurry and cast IL?

In your example the FoF proc from the frostbolt cast is irrelevent because you cleared your only FoF proc at that time and began casting frostbolt in order to do FB > Flurry > IL. The proc situation you mention can't be assumed and you can't react to otherwise you'd be waiting too long and wouldn't get the Frostbolt shattered by the flurry due to the delay.

To explain it a different way and still use your example:
1 BF and 1 FoF
FoF charge used now you have 1 BF and 0 FoF
Begin casting Frostbolt
As frostbolt finishes you should use the BF proc as that is part of the combo and why you do frostbolt > BF proc flurry > IL
Your Frostbolt procs FoF and you munch the free crit IL because of it. (Shit happens)

In your version you're not going to shatter the Frostbolt and in that case you wasted the frost bolt cast time for no reason. Along with the fact that if you don't use the BF proc right with that Frostbolt there's another chance you proc'd a new BF along with your FoF proc and you've just munched BF which is a DPS loss.

[Texhex]

what he is afraid of is the following:

you got a BF proc so you cast a frostbolt + BF flurry ->IL. the thing is that one frostbolt could proc FoF , which then would be wasted with the IL after the BF because it shatters anyway due to winters chill resulting in that wasted FoF proc during that frostbolt.

there is no real good way to handle those FoF procs that you get from the FB before the BF flurry. it is more or less always wasted, except you have a second target and you use SI talent, then the second target will get hit from shattered IL aswell due to FoF proc

[skeletonpoop]

Whether or not to munch a BF IL proc depends on the circumstances. FB BF is the only way to guarantee not dropping chain reaction stacks. The tradeoff is usually an IL proc, so whether its worth it to munch depends on whether munching will ultimately net you more dmg than the IL would have

Chain reaction is more valuable when 1. there is likely a large amount of FoF procs incoming (frozen orb, gloves) such that the dmg increase to the incoming procs outweighs the original IL proc and the incoming ones without the dmg increase, and 2. there is a second add so splitting ice will benefit from the increased chain reaction dmg

[Tobiee]

With the changes to IV/TV i feel like haste wont be as good of a stat as crit cap and vers. I have the impression that the meta is switching from "getting as many lances into the Icy Veins" to "let your lances hit as hard as possible". Meaning, that the bis relics are changing and that haste wont be as important as crit/vers. I have recently seen a couple of really good mages with sth. like 17% haste.

This is just a impression or a asumption from me and i'd like some opinions from you guys.

[3lorian]

Yeah I've gone from 28 crit 27 haste and like 7 vers to 32 crit 20 haste and 13 vers (current stats show int>vers>haste>mastery>crit now). Crazy how that is working I honestly would have figured the opposite would apply since we lost a lot of Bf procs (figured the more we cast the more procs we get ) guess we're supposed to hit like a cannon and not a machine gun now

Still less clunky and higher simming than GS for me (though I don't have as much mastery gear and an 913...I've heard you need to be over 915 for it to really shine)

[Pandako]

Hi !

Since the last changes I'm struggling a bit with my legendaries and stats. Maybe you can help me a bit with my decisions. Currently I'm using the gloves and bracers, and last night I upgraded the bracers.

I'm hoping for the shard to put instead of the gloves, that will be a good decision I think... but while i don't have the shard I'm thinking of puting Sephuz's intead of the bracers and start to construct my stats around that (shard have similar stats and I think Sephuz's is not bad, maybe better than the gloves in the current patch, and give me a slot for a posible 2T19 4T20 pieces). Do you think that would be a good idea? Is Sephuz's worth over the vash gloves?

For the stats, I'm thinking to get my 32-33 crit, stop seeking for haste around 25% and try to push versatility, I'm too low of it. What do you think?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for my bad English.