Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Ice Lancers of Azeroth.
Lathari
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Lathari Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 am

I've been retracing some replies here and I wanted to add some input to the opener with T20. Sims are pretty funky when it comes to pre-combat so it's not easy to find the best way to do an opener. I've been doing this:
Frostbolt -> IV (during travel time) -> FO -> Frostbolt (during Frozen Orb travel time) -> Procs -> EB -> BF -> IL
Depending on the situation (lust on pull/positioning concerns), I also try to throw in a shimmerlance after the BF proc from EB.

The important part is making sure that you land the shattered Ebonbolt during Frozen Orb's duration for the increased crit percentage. I would definitely munch an FoF to do it. It's also worth noting that this is decent for the 2pc, but even better for the 4pc. If you opened up with EB it would feel very bad reducing Frozen Orb's CD by 5 seconds when it's not on CD to begin with. You do take a chance to proc BF with the 1st pre-casted Frostbolt, but it's better than losing out on a 100% proc reducing 5 secs on Frozen Orb's CD.

I guess the only other options would be to pre-cast a hardcasted Flurry or Frozen Orb? Neither seem like great options compared to Frostbolt considering it's our filler spell that can lead to more damage during Frozen Orb (CR, FoF, BF, Icicles, etc).
Thanks for sharing Thingy, seeing you use this opener on stream the other day gave me some comfort that I wasn't crazy to experiment with a similar opener. Never bothered simming this myself but it felt better than precasting EB
thingy
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby thingy Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:15 pm

So after talking to Norrinir about openers he was able to sim and compare some. He can probably share some of the details about how to sim openers correctly as it isn't very straight forward. Either way, I trust his abilities and he determined that the traditional Ebonbolt opener is simming the highest - even with 4pc.

So:

Code: Select all

Ebonbolt -> IV -> BF -> IL -> Frozen Orb -> Etc.
sims 1k higher than:

Code: Select all

Ebonbolt -> IV -> Frostbolt -> BF -> IL -> Frozen Orb -> Etc.
and sims 2k higher than:

Code: Select all

Frostbolt -> IV -> Frozen Orb -> Ebonbolt -> BF -> IL -> Etc.
The good news is that 1-2k over the course of a fight isn't really a big deal and you can pretty much pick whichever you want and be just fine. For those who want to min-max the most (and munch procs the least) I'd go with the original Ebonbolt opener. I'm going to swap back to the Ebonbolt opener and stick in a shimmerlance after the first BF proc on fights where we hero/lust/tw on pull if initial positioning isn't a concern.
zulgohlan
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby zulgohlan Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:52 pm

Ty thingy

this goes along with my earlier sims which showing EB opener 2k in front (but different styles, i did eb iv orb flurry il and if range was enough i got il before oeb and 2nd il when orb reached without shimmerlance... )
Katsumi
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Katsumi Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:11 am

Thank you thingy, that's very helpful.

I'm also a big fan of the shimmerlance suggestion because it will make you skip the usual travel time of Frozen Orb. That in turn means that you can immediately start walking back during the GCD of the orb and your first orb lance and reduce the risk of munching in case your first Frostbolt after the Orb procs both FoF and BF (wich due to orb's travel time you'd have to start casting before the orb hits).

Good stuff.
Abscond
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Abscond Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm

Does anyone think the NH 2s is way overvalued in simc? I've got some 955 shoulders and 945 pants but the 905s for the 2s still sims almost 15k higher.
Isn't stats shoulders are crit/haste and pants are haste vers.
At 31% crit, 30% haste, 8% vers.
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Norrinir
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Norrinir Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:57 pm

No, T19 2pc is not overvalued.
3lorian
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby 3lorian Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:45 pm

What leggos do you have? according to these sims bracers/shard is only 4K over Shard/helm and that's with braver/Shard using 2/4 combo. If you are simming bracer/Shard without 2/4 combo I would imagine it would drop significantly

Try the higher ilvl pieces with shard/helm
Abscond
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Abscond Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:21 am

Don't have helm, but tried the sims with it and 2s was still better.
broedrost
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby broedrost Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:27 am

2p from NH boosts 4p from ToS alot so yeah logically it's very strong
Syxx
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Syxx Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:26 pm

Yeah i use 2pc from the previous tier even though it's a fairly big downgrade in terms of int it's definitely worth it.
kaprizz
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby kaprizz Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:45 am

Friends, can u share link of mages discord, cause the old one, mentioned in post doesnt work
Fnoptik
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Fnoptik Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:36 pm

https://discord.gg/4RCsa" target="_blank
God_
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby God_ Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:32 am

Expired.
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Tenzarin
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Tenzarin Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:11 am

No, T19 2pc is not overvalued.
It looks overvalued to me.
Image
Xinder
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Xinder Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:46 pm

Expired.
It's literally at the top of the forums. It says Join us on Discord.
No, T19 2pc is not overvalued.
It looks overvalued to me.
Image
I don't know about overvalued or not, but I don't feel like trying to get TF 910+ pieces of T19 just to feel like I'm min maxing the best. I have the lego helm and that's been out simming my lower 900/905 ilvl T19 for a while now. So that's what I use.
Aloyra
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Aloyra Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:06 am

Can someone please confirm that not only shimmerlancing is possible but also double Il after Bf with just walking towards the boss?
Just tried it casually in the classhall and it seems to work very well. I further tried it with tonights Goroth kill and I still got 97% critchance on Il (am not quite crit capped might be a fuckup on my double Il or just being unlucky). Link to the log below. Would love if someone else can confirm that this works for them aswell.
I'm a link click me
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Norrinir
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Norrinir Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:01 am

No, T19 2pc is not overvalued.
It looks overvalued to me.
Image
What is that even supposed to mean? What you say doesn't even follow from the image.

By the way, the default Frost profile is using shard + mag + T19 shoulders/legs. Even with the base mythic ilvl (905), it beats helm + shard + 930 offpiece, I tested that multiple times when creating the default profile.
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Tenzarin
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Tenzarin Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:56 am

No, T19 2pc is not overvalued.
It looks overvalued to me.
Image
What is that even supposed to mean? What you say doesn't even follow from the image.

By the way, the default Frost profile is using shard + mag + T19 shoulders/legs. Even with the base mythic ilvl (905), it beats helm + shard + 930 offpiece, I tested that multiple times when creating the default profile.
I don't use a default profile, I use myself. My helm is my highest t19. t19 looks pretty overvalued to me.

Even switching helm for shoulder would be a minor dps change and not make up a 15k difference.
Razlopp
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Razlopp Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:20 am



It looks overvalued to me.
Image
What is that even supposed to mean? What you say doesn't even follow from the image.

By the way, the default Frost profile is using shard + mag + T19 shoulders/legs. Even with the base mythic ilvl (905), it beats helm + shard + 930 offpiece, I tested that multiple times when creating the default profile.
I don't use a default profile, I use myself. My helm is my highest t19. t19 looks pretty overvalued to me.

Even switching helm for shoulder would be a minor dps change and not make up a 15k difference.

I think you're wording it wrong, and missing one major point, mastery for frost is useless, the tier 19 that lets you play it properly is Shoulders/Pants. The main aspect of frost is dumping all mastery as possible because it has such little value. If you're not using ideal pieces of t19 or don't have high enough ilvl for your t19 other gear can replace it.

For instance if you look at top parsing mages you'll see most if not all wearing shoulders/pants. This also allows for the minimal amount of mastery from the t20 set
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Tenzarin
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Re: Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

Unread postby Tenzarin Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:13 am

I think you're wording it wrong, and missing one major point, mastery for frost is useless, the tier 19 that lets you play it properly is Shoulders/Pants. The main aspect of frost is dumping all mastery as possible because it has such little value. If you're not using ideal pieces of t19 or don't have high enough ilvl for your t19 other gear can replace it.

For instance if you look at top parsing mages you'll see most if not all wearing shoulders/pants. This also allows for the minimal amount of mastery from the t20 set
I see it now.

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