Glacial Spike - Updated

[Imaskar]

What is the right way to use shatter combo in this build?

If I have FoF and BF procs, GS not on CD, what should I do?

GS not on cd? I assume you mean it's available? You would glacial, then use your Brain freeze proc. Assuming you're not capped on FoF procs.

So, the proc is consumed without shattering anything? Since you stated that GS won't shatter.

[Jorba]

You would glacial, then use your Brain freeze proc. Assuming you're not capped on FoF procs.

So, the proc is consumed without shattering anything? Since you stated that GS won't shatter.

Ideal way to handle flurry procs, Frostbolt->Flurry>Ice lance

Using your Brain freeze proc means casting a Frostbolt -> Flurry -> Ice lance sequence.

[Saróx]

In regards to the fact that Flurry cant shatter GS, if you stand at the stairs in the mage class hall and attack the middle dummy, i can land 100% crit on my GS everytime i GS>Flurry Asap and if i got IV on i can even squeeze in an IL, is this a bug or what? not using the built to much yet since i dont have any relevant relics, and my fire build is "on fire".

I took it for a spin last night on HC Star Auger, and yea my stats aint as great as i had hoped for, i did around 500k dps which is Okay, but my GS even when it crit did not deal very much dmg, and a huge part of that is prolly the fact that my relics are 3x IV cdr, and my gear gets me the following stats 33% crit 18% haste and 65% mastery.

Guess i need some more gear/practice before it will be able to outrun my fire but good build!

[Sambabwe]

In regards to the fact that Flurry cant shatter GS, if you stand at the stairs in the mage class hall and attack the middle dummy, i can land 100% crit on my GS everytime i GS>Flurry Asap and if i got IV on i can even squeeze in an IL, is this a bug or what? not using the built to much yet since i dont have any relevant relics, and my fire build is "on fire".

How much haste and what kind of ping do you have? I tried doing this multiple times to get shatter benefit for GS but didn't manage to do that. I tried with using cooldowns and different gear and multiple distances from target, without success.

[Saróx]

In regards to the fact that Flurry cant shatter GS, if you stand at the stairs in the mage class hall and attack the middle dummy, i can land 100% crit on my GS everytime i GS>Flurry Asap and if i got IV on i can even squeeze in an IL, is this a bug or what? not using the built to much yet since i dont have any relevant relics, and my fire build is "on fire".

How much haste and what kind of ping do you have? I tried doing this multiple times to get shatter benefit for GS but didn't manage to do that. I tried with using cooldowns and different gear and multiple distances from target, without success.

As i said in the above message i got 18% haste, but try the method i mentioned, it might just be a bug, becuase the way i found it was just starting close to the dummy, then moving further and further away parsing 5 min fights, and when i reached the stairs it was as close to 100% crit with GS as it could be. So who knows, might be a bug, might be the magic distance, but ill try and see if i cant get some pics of it tommorow.

[blackgandolf]

If we could shatter GS at max distance with flurry travel-time being improved, this spec would be nuts. Assuming you can still shatter with fbolt>flurry>ice lance at that distance of course. I am curious if the distance can still shatter a follow up ice lance (GS>flurry>IL). Although certain NH strats would restrict this technique due to positional requirements, this could be a quite fun technique to manage. I will try this out after work today myself and post if no one else gets to it.

[Razlopp]

If we could shatter GS at max distance with flurry travel-time being improved, this spec would be nuts. .

I have yet to tinker with shattering glacial since the flurry speed patch, I tried briefly but given bosses like Krosus where his hit box is just farther away than your standard mob there may be a way to shatter glacial consistently. With that being said you have to realize that you have to put yourself in this position on every boss which usually isn't available due to how most bosses work.

If anyone else finds anything else out though please be sure to let me know

[t3hbar0n]

I did about 10 minutes of just setting up the glacial spike into flurry proc on the dummy to see if I could get a consistent shatter on the dummy. I was unable to do this, as the glacial spike still appears to accelerate at much greater speed than the flurry even after the patch and is still arriving first. I was unable to get a predictable string of crits using this method, so I doubt it is something you could get to work consistently. I could see it potentially working if the latency conditions were right, but it wouldn't work at all for me at 60-90MS latency.

[blackgandolf]

I also tried reproducing the GS shatter without using shimmer and I could not. Under TW, IV, and without (base 21% haste) with 10 ms. I tried this by starting in melee and moving about 5 yds each round, eventually up the steps. At no distance could I make the flurry projectiles land before GS.

[Syxx]

I gotta be honest with you, the OP while useful is clear as mud in regards to how to actually play the spec saying that the information could be found elsewhere. So could someone give a breakdown on how to actually buff GS because I'm sort of lost on how that works. Sometimes it hits like a truck, and sometimes not so much, and I'd like to know why. And another thing, people keep saying "shatter" but I don't really understand what this means. So could someone explain both of these things? I'd appreciate it.

[Zotix]

How do you know it's time to switch over to this build? I'm 2/4 878 ilevel, 35 traits. I think it's still too early, but I'd like to know when is a good point. Is it just a matter of Sim yourself and see?

[Rabona]

I'd say just sim or try it out, maybe do some LFR with it, so you won't get flamed or kicked if it's too soon .
I was 53 paragon into fire and 35 into Frost (897ilvl/Magnum+Shard/2pc) when I tried it (first time touching Frost this addon, so my play wasn't exactly perfect) and the spec seemed to perform roughly equal to my fire in terms of ST damage.

With FB-trait-relics, Legendaries and secondary stats to factor in it's probably hard to make general statements as to when the spec truly outperforms the others.

[blackgandolf]

My decision to swap to GS out of TV was based purely on my ST simming about 30k higher with OP's apl. I have no frost specific lego's so TV was meh. Was at about 47 artifact traits at that point and it has only been increasingly stronger in sims and real fights. Even after 4 piece of tier GS is still simming higher than 4 piece. After getting some better vers gear and just 1 FB relic, i sim about 680k as GS vers 630k as TV wearing the best gear I can for either specs on a 6 min fight. Performance wise, I was hitting 99th percentiles on most fights in heroic and normal NH as GS this week (even keeping up with other "better" classes on the meters).

[Arandomperson]

I actually simmed myself for relic traits and for me it seems ice lance dmg is almost as strong as frostbolt dmg on singletarget but quite abit better on 2 targets, so dont take the sims in the first post as a given. I am at 899 equipped ilvl. Also this should improve icelance sims with magtheridons bracers which I do not have

[Potaetoe]

I gotta be honest with you, the OP while useful is clear as mud in regards to how to actually play the spec saying that the information could be found elsewhere. So could someone give a breakdown on how to actually buff GS because I'm sort of lost on how that works. Sometimes it hits like a truck, and sometimes not so much, and I'd like to know why. And another thing, people keep saying "shatter" but I don't really understand what this means. So could someone explain both of these things? I'd appreciate it.

I've been seeing this all around... It seems people who are not seeing this clearly are completely forgetting EVERYTHING about Frost Mage as a class. This is a Frost Mage Build, it builds upon basic Frost concepts.

So your first question: How do you actually buff GS?

Well first the question lacks any understanding of what GS is. Like it lacks you reading what the Talent does. So let's go step by step here and read what GS does.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=199786/glacial-spike
Conjures a massive spike of ice, and merges your current Icicles into it. It impales your target, dealing (1000% of Spell power) damage plus the damage stored in your Icicles, and freezes the target in place for 4 sec. Damage may interrupt the freeze effect.

Note: GS also makes it so Ice Lance no longer Launches Icicles

Ok so it deals 1000%sp + Icicle Damage, and freezes the target.

So let's figure out what Icicle Damage is.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=148022/icicle
When you damage enemies with Frostbolt, 18.0% of the damage done is stored as an Icicle for 1 min. Also increases the damage done by your Water Elemental by 18.0%.

Casting Ice Lance causes any Icicles stored to begin launching at the target. Up to 5 Icicles can be stored. Excess Icicles will automatically be launched.

Ok so each Icicle = Mastery%*Frostbolt Dmg (18% in the above spell is based on mastery).

So let's figure out what Frostbolt Dmg is:

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228597/frostbolt
Launches a bolt of frost at the enemy, causing (175% of Spell power) Frost damage and slowing movement speed by 50% for 15 sec.

Ok so each Frostbolt = 175%sp

So GS Damage = 1000%sp + Icicle1 + Icicle 2 + Icicle 3 + Icicle 4 + Icicle 5

And Icicle(n) = Mastery%*Frostbolt Dmg

And Frostbolt Dmg = 175% * spellpower

So Icicle(n) = Mastery% * (175% * spellpower)

So GS Damage = 1000% * sp + (Mastery% * (175% * spellpower)) + (Mastery% * (175% * spellpower)) + (Mastery% * (175% * spellpower)) + (Mastery% * (175% * spellpower)) + (Mastery% * (175% * spellpower))

Now this is a rudimentary equation because it ignores Critical Strike Chance, Versatility, Black Ice Golden Trait, Incanter's Flow/RoP, etc.

So you need to know that Frostbolt DMG can be critted and benefits from Vers.

GS Damage can also be critted and benefits from Verse.

Icicle Damage also can be buffed by Black Ice.

So if Frostbolt 1 Crits, Frostbolt 2 Crits, Frostbolt 3 Crits, Frostbolt 4 Crits, Frostbolt 5 Crits, Icicle Damage 1-5 will all be really high. Then if you Glacial Spike these 5 crits and GS crits you now critted each icicle damage twice. This is called double dipping.

Innately Frostbolt Damage is increased by Verse. So is Glacial Spike damage. So Verse effects Glacial Spike damage twice because it effected the damage of Icicles and Glacial Spike which is made up of Icicle Damage.

Mastery is great becuase it determines the size of the icicle. Low mastery will make Glacial Spike do less damage. Because if you crit a frostbolt and it hits for 300k, but you only have 20% mastery, then guess what... only 60k damage is being put in the icicle. 300k + 1000%sp is not a lot. Even if it crits.

If you don't understand at least a rudimentary part of how GS works after that, I will not be able to explain further. Please note I probably made mistakes in the whole explanation, it's just a rough napkin math way to explain the basics of GS.

As for Shatter, that's a core concept of Frost Mage. Shatter is a passive of Frost Mage.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12982/shatter

Shatter is a buff to Crit when a target is 'frozen'. Well targets are almost never frozen technically. But there are two factors that will give the Shatter Benefit WITHOUT them being frozen.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112965/fingers-of-frost

Fingers of Frost causes your Ice Lance to act as if the target is frozen.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228358/winters-chill

NOTE: click the link above to read the debuff stuff, if you hove it'll give you the Flurry spell data... not sure how to link just winter's chill

Flurry causes a debuff on the target called Winter's Chill that lasts for 1s that treats the target as Frozen.

this is why you Ice Lance if you have Fingers of Frost and this is why you always Frostbolt -> Flurry -> Ice Lance.

To explain why you Frostbolt first it's because Frostbolt will travel slower than Flurry so that you can cast both at the same time and Flurry will hit first -> Frostbolt will hit and benefit from it being frozen -> Ice Lance will hit and benefit from it being frozen. Guaranteeing +66%ish crit.

Please note shatter in the wowhead link is a lower rank I believe (hence it saying 25%).

The reason this post nor any other GS post talks about these things is because we assume a basic level of class knowledge. If you're looking for a completely new-to-frost post please use Kuni's guide over on MMO-Champion. I believe he does cover these concepts.

[Potaetoe]

I actually simmed myself for relic traits and for me it seems ice lance dmg is almost as strong as frostbolt dmg on singletarget but quite abit better on 2 targets, so dont take the sims in the first post as a given. I am at 899 equipped ilvl. Also this should improve icelance sims with magtheridons bracers which I do not have

What AP are you at.

Frostbolt Damage % will outscale Ice Lance damage as AP and Mastery get higher and higher.

The sims done in the first post are based on a DEFAULT PROFILE. Your sims will ALWAYS produce differing results. Different factors effect different things.

DO NOT EVER ASSUME ANY HOW TO, GUIDE, SIM IS GOD.

Skepticism is good.

(note I'm not ragging on you, I just mean in general. There is never one answer means everything, but that seems to be all anyone wants)

[Arandomperson]

54 traits 27% crit 16% haste 56% mastery 9% versa

[Syxx]

Thank you for the explanation.

[Potaetoe]

54 traits 27% crit 16% haste 56% mastery 9% versa

The build itself is running high mastery iirc, but maybe we missed something somewhere and relic sims need to be reran. *shrugs*

[Razlopp]

54 traits 27% crit 16% haste 56% mastery 9% versa

The build itself is running high mastery iirc, but maybe we missed something somewhere and relic sims need to be reran. *shrugs*

Could have something to do with 2/4pc. 2pc would raise frostbolt quite a bit.