Glacial Spike - Updated

[Potaetoe]

or that

[nirdana]

I like this spec more than the one before patch. Ice lances do dmg.
And the best part of it is that all stats are nearly equal (on ST), pretty easy to gear it up.

[Potaetoe]

I like this spec more than the one before patch. Ice lances do dmg.
And the best part of it is that all stats are nearly equal (on ST), pretty easy to gear it up.

Speaking of stats, I wouldn't be surprised in stat weights at certain levels being a bit off. I think there is a pretty hard stat cap for GS like there was back in 7.0.

Early ilvl gear (non Mythic NH) it seems really correct. Typically Verse -> Int -> Stats. But just as a note you don't use verse for or enchants. Because you get more % out of gems/enchants of mastery or crit due to verse costing more per % than other stats.

Also this GS build has AOE applicability. Unlike the old one in which Mastery stacking completely ruined AoE damage of Blizzard and Ice Lance.

The changes to the build have honestly made Glacial Spike a legitimate build and playstyle. No it's not maximized or the most optimal/consistent build. But it's not a meme. It can stand out in many situations and isn't a one trick pony.

[Arandomperson]

I actually do have the 2piece as well so that's probably not it. Maybe because I have more haste than other ppl running this build so I get more procs and less dmg on frostbolt->spike

[Venno]

I like this spec more than the one before patch. Ice lances do dmg.
And the best part of it is that all stats are nearly equal (on ST), pretty easy to gear it up.

Speaking of stats, I wouldn't be surprised in stat weights at certain levels being a bit off. I think there is a pretty hard stat cap for GS like there was back in 7.0.

Early ilvl gear (non Mythic NH) it seems really correct. Typically Verse -> Int -> Stats. But just as a note you don't use verse for or enchants. Because you get more % out of gems/enchants of mastery or crit due to verse costing more per % than other stats.

Also this GS build has AOE applicability. Unlike the old one in which Mastery stacking completely ruined AoE damage of Blizzard and Ice Lance.

The changes to the build have honestly made Glacial Spike a legitimate build and playstyle. No it's not maximized or the most optimal/consistent build. But it's not a meme. It can stand out in many situations and isn't a one trick pony.

It's pretty sweet even at lower ilevels. Went into normal NH today to test at 890 ilvl with only 10 levels in my paragon trait, and was pleasantly surprised to be pretty close to TV even with super sub-optimal play. Scary to think how good it could end up when I know what I'm doing, max out the weapon and have better gear.

[Razlopp]

I like this spec more than the one before patch. Ice lances do dmg.
And the best part of it is that all stats are nearly equal (on ST), pretty easy to gear it up.

Speaking of stats, I wouldn't be surprised in stat weights at certain levels being a bit off. I think there is a pretty hard stat cap for GS like there was back in 7.0.

Early ilvl gear (non Mythic NH) it seems really correct. Typically Verse -> Int -> Stats. But just as a note you don't use verse for or enchants. Because you get more % out of gems/enchants of mastery or crit due to verse costing more per % than other stats.

Also this GS build has AOE applicability. Unlike the old one in which Mastery stacking completely ruined AoE damage of Blizzard and Ice Lance.

The changes to the build have honestly made Glacial Spike a legitimate build and playstyle. No it's not maximized or the most optimal/consistent build. But it's not a meme. It can stand out in many situations and isn't a one trick pony.

Enchants/Gems/Food should still be Vers if Vers is your highest stat. The budgeting you mentioned does not matter, you're not enchanting %'s, you're enchanting values, all of which Vers in this situation gives you the most out of.

[kuroyume]

I gave this a quick dummy try last night and was dissapointed to see it be roughly 30k DPS below TV for me, and to see simc confirming that. I wonder if it is because I have legendary gloves and bracers?

[Kumpare]

I gave this a quick dummy try last night and was dissapointed to see it be roughly 30k DPS below TV for me, and to see simc confirming that. I wonder if it is because I have legendary gloves and bracers?

Legendary gloves are fairly mediocre legendaries for GS build, but almost mandatory for TV build, which can explain the dps difference. Also ilvl and artifact traits greatly favor GS builds.

In addition, what talents did you try this on? If you used Frozen Touch on single target dummy, keep in mind that in most fights you will at some point have a potential to cleave. Since GS uses splitting ice for both cleave and pure single target, it automatically gains dps if more targets appear throughout the fight, while TV build with frozen touch doesn't. On the other hand, if you choose splitting ice for TV, it loses dps when compared to frozen touch when there are no secondary targets.

[kuroyume]

I did use Frozen Touch on the TV build for testing, but I switch between FT and SI depending on fight on raids (tomes have gotten cheap enough that 4-5 switches in a night is no big deal). Maybe I'll try GS on sustained cleave fights (like botanist) and see how it goes there.

[Xinder]

The hardest decision I'm having for this is if I should go after the BIS TV relics or the BIS GS relics. I feel like once I get them I gimp myself for the other spec. How true that really is, I'm not sure, but I've been gearing separately for both and haven't made the call which one I want to focus on. Because of relics though it feels like swapping between the two per fight wouldn't be as efficient if you didn't have the right relics.

[t3hbar0n]

So, with the frost mage hotfixes today, would it now be worth casting the ebonbolt/flurry/lance combo during icy veins since the ebonbolt will now shatter?

Brain Freeze procs gained while you already have a Brain Freeze active and unused will now be delayed slightly.
Developers’ notes: The delay on the second Brain Freeze will give the Mage time to use the first Brain Freeze proc. For example, the Mage might cast Frostbolt (proc Brain Freeze), then Frostbolt (proc Brain Freeze again), then instant Flurry, then Ice Lance, then Instant Flurry again, then Ice Lance.
Ebonbolt now travels slightly slower.
Developers’ notes: This allows the guaranteed Brain Freeze proc/instant Flurry cast immediately following it to land first, providing the Winter's Chill buff to that Ebonbolt. For example, the Mage might cast Frostbolt (proc Brain Freeze), then Ebonbolt, and fully use both Brain Freeze procs.
The first missile from a Flurry cast should now hit sooner.
Developers’ notes: This allows a Frostbolt or Ebonbolt cast immediately before a Brain Freeze Flurry to more consistently benefit from that Flurry's Winter's Chill effect, even if the mage isn’t standing at long range. The Frost Mage who has an active Brain Freeze can now cast Frostbolt/Ebonbolt, then an Instant Flurry, then Ice Lance while standing 15+ yards from the target. Previously, the Mage had to be about twice as far away.

[Razlopp]

I will be looking into updating for these changes, as for now it's probably rather minor. I could see it being used just off hand. The overall changes are extremely nice!

[Arandomperson]

yeah the changes look like they could give us almost as much of a dps increase as the 2piece set . Also it might be worth investigating if glacial spike can be shattered with the speed buffs on flurry. The smaller range requirement on shattering frostbolts is also a huge quality of life improvement in cramped fights.

[Laere]

I was doing a consistent 620k DPS on a target dummy over 6 mins. Using 910 prydaz and 940 shard at the time.

Looking very good. I am currently NOW 897 ilvl, 940 prydaz/shard, 905 wep with 42 points in frost.

Do we still handle flurry procs as stated in the guide since the flurry hotfixes? FB -> flurry -> lance?

[Xinder]

I was doing a consistent 620k DPS on a target dummy over 6 mins. Using 910 prydaz and 940 shard at the time.

Looking very good. I am currently NOW 897 ilvl, 940 prydaz/shard, 905 wep with 42 points in frost.

Do we still handle flurry procs as stated in the guide since the flurry hotfixes? FB -> flurry -> lance?

Yes. There should be no change to that part. Also worth noting you can shatter Ebonbolt now with a BF Flurry cast. So it'd be Ebonbolt > Flurry > IL > FB > Flurry > IL.

Side note on that, anyone come up with or sims solve yet, if it's better to wait on for a BF before using Ebon or just keep Ebon on CD and if it happens to match a BF proc then bonus for you? I'm assuming it's the former because of how in a good majority of cases you rarely wanna delay spells unless they're super long CDs but I felt it'd be a good discussion to have.

[Drozzy]

Side note on that, anyone come up with or sims solve yet, if it's better to wait on for a BF before using Ebon or just keep Ebon on CD and if it happens to match a BF proc then bonus for you? I'm assuming it's the former because of how in a good majority of cases you rarely wanna delay spells unless they're super long CDs but I felt it'd be a good discussion to have.

Ebon gives you a brain freeze immediately, which you can cast immediately. The slight delay on receiving a brain freeze only occurs if you already have the buff, as to avoid munching. It does not prevent ebon->flurry->IL even when you cast ebon with 0 procs.

[Potaetoe]

I like this spec more than the one before patch. Ice lances do dmg.
And the best part of it is that all stats are nearly equal (on ST), pretty easy to gear it up.

Speaking of stats, I wouldn't be surprised in stat weights at certain levels being a bit off. I think there is a pretty hard stat cap for GS like there was back in 7.0.

Early ilvl gear (non Mythic NH) it seems really correct. Typically Verse -> Int -> Stats. But just as a note you don't use verse for or enchants. Because you get more % out of gems/enchants of mastery or crit due to verse costing more per % than other stats.

Also this GS build has AOE applicability. Unlike the old one in which Mastery stacking completely ruined AoE damage of Blizzard and Ice Lance.

The changes to the build have honestly made Glacial Spike a legitimate build and playstyle. No it's not maximized or the most optimal/consistent build. But it's not a meme. It can stand out in many situations and isn't a one trick pony.

Enchants/Gems/Food should still be Vers if Vers is your highest stat. The budgeting you mentioned does not matter, you're not enchanting %'s, you're enchanting values, all of which Vers in this situation gives you the most out of.

Umm no. it's not that simple. If verse is your highest stat, it'll add more consistency if you enchant it, but if Mastery is not under Int, Mastery can still be better, it's always recommend to sim each enchant type to confirm.

A good example of things similar to this is you can look at Fire Mage or TV Frost.

For Fire Crit is not always your top stat, but you typically will still enchant crit and gem crit over haste or mastery or verse. Because it scales better.

For TV Frost Haste is not always your top stat, but you typically will still enchant haste and gem haste over crit or mastery or verse, because haste scales better.

[Xinder]

Side note on that, anyone come up with or sims solve yet, if it's better to wait on for a BF before using Ebon or just keep Ebon on CD and if it happens to match a BF proc then bonus for you? I'm assuming it's the former because of how in a good majority of cases you rarely wanna delay spells unless they're super long CDs but I felt it'd be a good discussion to have.

Ebon gives you a brain freeze immediately, which you can cast immediately. The slight delay on receiving a brain freeze only occurs if you already have the buff, as to avoid munching. It does not prevent ebon->flurry->IL even when you cast ebon with 0 procs.

I am not sure if I'm just misunderstanding the scenario you're describing or if you are missing how ebon works. I just casted ebon on live and I got the BF as the cast finished. Is that what you meant when you said immediately? The scenario I was describing is you have Ebon just coming off CD but no BF proc. Do you wait for a BF proc to then be able to shatter the Ebon for higher dmg or do you just use the Ebon as you normally would to provide you with the BF proc.

If I were to cast Ebon I would have to be spamming the Flurry button to hope that as the proc triggered I'd be able to get the flurry off and shatter the Ebon. It seems less ideal to try that without already having the BF proc and seems pron to perhaps missing the Winter's Chill benefit. Given GCD and such.

[Venno]

If you queue Flurry after Ebonbolt, it will shatter the Ebonbolt using the BF from Ebonbolt itself.

[t3hbar0n]

If you queue Flurry after Ebonbolt, it will shatter the Ebonbolt using the BF from Ebonbolt itself.

Correct, they changed the travel speeds of ebonbolt and flurry so that you can cast your ebonbolt, you will proc a flurry, and if you cast that flurry instantly the first flurry will arrive before the ebonbolt hits so that the ebonbolt benefits from shatter... basically ebonbolt will generate its own shatter now as long as you fire the flurry as soon as ebonbolt is released. Also don't forget to follow that with an ice lance for extra shatter damage.