Glacial Spike - Updated

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Ice Lancers of Azeroth.
Blackhazzard
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Blackhazzard Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:13 pm

Crit to shatter cap (33.34%) > Vers ~= Haste ~= Int > Mastery
I'd argue with that. Mastery weight will be reduced by ur scalling things so:

~7% Versa ratio (less versa you have, less mastery will loose value)
~3.3% Chilled to the core - (not sure here?)
~10% Frigidity of the Tirisgarde
and 20% * sum of rest 20% = 4% Ebonchill proc rate (no idea here lets say 20%)

so will be 24% weaker.

Instead we get better int scalling on GS (50% more dmg means 1500% spell power multiplier, means intellect is half more effective).

Let's take sim from here:
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T20M.html" target="_blank

GS did 29% of damage, and intellect will be half more effective on this spell, means he will gain aprox 14.5% more Int value.

So basically Id say it will give us 24% less Mastery value and 14.5% more int value. Since we get way more Int with Ilvl than secondary stats it could be even buff with higher Ilvls.

Also correct my if i'm wrong or forgot about anything
You have maybe the Simcrafts with Glacial Spike again? when i Look now its TV Sim´s
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Falq
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Falq Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:12 pm


You have maybe the Simcrafts with Glacial Spike again? when i Look now its TV Sim´s
Yeah well I only ment to take % of GS dmg out of total damage without putting number out of the hat, but I do agree link is outdated. But if you sim urself for ST Patchwerk GS should be around 30-35% of your damage so 29% taken by me is some worst case scenario.
This is to prevent Glacial Spike from "double-dipping" %-damage buffs. That is, since the Icicles have already been buffed by things like Versatility or Incanter's Flow, that portion of Glacial Spike's damage should not benefit again. This matches the behavior of regular Icicles, which do not benefit from those types of buffs.
Wich should mean ,the Icicles benefit from Vers, Mastery, IF, IV.....but not external buffs like the Buff at Maidens.
Thats atleast what i understand from it.
Not really, what they mean is all buffs affect Frostbolt damage and Icicle is made out of frostolt damage, so Icicles are already affected by buffs without being affected by them directly, if you know what I mean :)

So yeah, Icicles are suppose to be mastery% of buffed frostbolt. Let's say you had 100% versa and 60% mastery. In this case you would hit:

200% of FB (normal + 100% versa multiplier)

and Icicle for:

200% FB (taken from above calculation) *60% mastery * (100% base dmg + 100% versa multiplier) = 240% of FB damage.

Total 200% of FB as FB and 240% of FB as Icicle => 440% of normal FB


when now you simply get
200% FB + (200% FB * 60%) mastery Icicle => Total 200% of FB as FB and 120% of FB as Icicle.

Still stronger than 60% of normal FB (FB * versa * mastery) but worse than sick: FB * versa * mastery * versa (cos of double dipping).

Double dipping is strong tool and we could see it comming
snafu
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby snafu Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:37 pm

So I don't know if theres been 100% clarity on this.

If you have your 2 pc t20. How should your opening rotation look like? I am having some trouble figuring it out.

Do you pre pot, frost bolt until your first brain freeze and then, icy veins, frozen orb, ebon folt, flurry, ice lance, glacial spike, flurry?

If so, then do you go into your normal rotation, and cast glacial spike on 5 stacks of ice cicles regardless if you have flurry or not, or do you always hold it for a flurry?
zulgohlan
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby zulgohlan Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:03 am

gs performs still slightly better than tv with my gear

Weights: haste=vers mastery raped again
Xaximbo
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xaximbo Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:19 am

rotation is a bit on the fly now as a rule of thumb:

-Drop as much IL when frozen orb is up, guaranteed crits.
-Flurry frostbolt only if icicles are <3 , if you have 3+ icicles save the flurry to shatter glacial spike.
-If ebonbolt is up you can shatter al frostbolts, and when you are at 5 icicles cast ebonbolt then shatter glacial spike.

At least this is what im doing.
God_
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:46 am

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby God_ Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:23 pm

Any sims now with this new change? mastery rip again in frost tree? :!: :roll:
Howl trinket rip for us now? :roll:
Xinder
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xinder Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:36 pm

gs performs still slightly better than tv with my gear

Weights: haste=vers mastery raped again
Personally I had a 30k swing in my GS spike damange. Before this lovely change it was simming 10k over TV, now even with optimized gear to get to shatter cap and drop mastery since it's less relevant it sims 20k less than TV.
kesMow
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby kesMow Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:30 pm

Is there still a specific APL for GS or I miss something...?
I haven't found it on the 1st page but I think I was using a specific one few months ago...
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Xmesho09
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:44 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xmesho09 Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:41 pm

please can someone tell me what GS stats now and why ?
Xinder
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xinder Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:43 pm

Is there still a specific APL for GS or I miss something...?
I haven't found it on the 1st page but I think I was using a specific one few months ago...
Last I knew it was built into the simc APL now. Back when it was still a new thing and not widely used you had to use the APL manually. This shouldn't be the case now.
please can someone tell me what GS stats now and why ?
Mastery doesn't have as much value now. Outside of that, sim yourself. If you don't know much about simcraft, use raidbots.com as that makes simming yourself easier.
Xaximbo
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xaximbo Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:57 pm

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might not be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.
Last edited by Xaximbo on Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vyro
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Vyro Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:15 pm

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might now be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.
pretty sure u got a typo there and that you ment "might not be an absolute BiS".
I asked myself the same question. Since it just provides mastery besides the nice effect...
Xaximbo
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xaximbo Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:59 pm

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might now be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.
pretty sure u got a typo there and that you ment "might not be an absolute BiS".
I asked myself the same question. Since it just provides mastery besides the nice effect...

yup fixed for clarity.
God_
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:46 am

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby God_ Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:42 pm

So arcano+wisper now? Or some full of versa?
3lorian
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby 3lorian Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:37 pm

I mean that damage from owl is pretty insane so it might still be outstanding. What about terror or a really high Horn? God I hope that I don't have to farm helya for a titanforged 910+ bottle :/
Xinder
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xinder Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:45 pm

I'm fairly certain the current google doc of 7.2.5 trinkets has been updated to reflect the change in GS to mastery and that Medallion is still really good. I could totally be wrong though and while mastery isn't as impactful it's still good and if you do get the medallion you could always swap out other mastery gear for better itemized pieces because of having so much mastery on the trinket.
zulgohlan
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby zulgohlan Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:21 am

Havent simd so far with an iwl, but i thinkits still far on top, the most potential comes from the useeffect in burstphases
Xaximbo
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xaximbo Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:02 am

Simmed with raidbots GS and mastery shows as 1st stat O.o. I have low mastery 42% 33,5% crit 25% haste and 4% versa.
My sim is Mastery>Versa>Int>haste>crit i was gearing for TV during NH.

Looking at guildies that have been stacking mastery their sim is the opposite haste main stat and mastery lowest. I think there are several breakpoints and most probably highest ilvl wins.
Xinder
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby Xinder Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Simmed with raidbots GS and mastery shows as 1st stat O.o. I have low mastery 42% 33,5% crit 25% haste and 4% versa.
My sim is Mastery>Versa>Int>haste>crit i was gearing for TV during NH.

Looking at guildies that have been stacking mastery their sim is the opposite haste main stat and mastery lowest. I think there are several breakpoints and most probably highest ilvl wins.
I'm at work currently, but my mastery is somewhere around 45-46% and it's the lowest on my stats. So a bit more mastery while keeping your crit, versatility will probably move to the top as 4% is low for GS.
magnuskn
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Glacial Spike - How to Ham 101

Unread postby magnuskn Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:18 pm

I had sims with Mastery as first stat as well, until I updated Simcraft to the lastest nightly build, then Mastery went back to the lowest stat of the five.

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