Crit weighting with HWF PBoI

[Verraine]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was speculation that if you had the HWF PBoI you might want to re-evaluated the usefulness of crit. Was any testing done on this theory, and if so, what were the results?

[Komma]

While I don't remember seeing any published results, Frostedmages and I did some investigating on the value of Crit. I can't remember all the exact details, but here are some key results:

1. Crit reforge graphs don't look pretty. It's very complicated.
2. Getting to 28% crit for FoF-IL and BF shatter cap is very important at near BiS levels. The value of crit is higher than mastery if you're far below Shatter cap. 2 points of crit is worth more than 1 int, unlike what AMR says. HOWEVER:
3. Between all the int procs (PBoI, KTT/BBoY, Jade Spirit, Lightweave, Jade Serpent Potion, Engineering gloves) you DON'T want to intentionally gear for Shatter cap. The procs mean you almost always have some additional crit from some proc. There was a significant dropoff on crit value past ~26-27% passive gear crit.
4. Since you need 2T16H, you're going to have some amount of crit anyway. Even if you ignore crit, unless you have amazing loot luck with HWF itemization without having cleared 14/14H, it's unlikely you'll need to intentionally balance your crit.

The TL;DR of the above is that basically nothing changes - although crit is a lot more complicated than people realize, for 99.99% of players, the standard "ignore crit" rule still applies just fine - which is why nothing was published.

[Verraine]

Thanks for the reply, Komma. The main reason I'm asking is because I have some HWF pieces that I'm not using because they have crit for secondaries. I'm trying to determine if it's worth using them.

[Komma]

The current SimC Frost BiS profile is using quite a few crit pieces(Immer helm, Thok robes). You don't really "waste" crit until you go far beyond 28%.

Code: Select all

head=hood_of_swirling_senses,id=105420,upgrade=4,gems=sinister_primal_160hit_160mastery_180int,reforge=crit_haste neck=untainted_guardians_chain,id=105465,upgrade=4,reforge=hit_haste shoulders=chronomancer_mantle,id=99401,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_160exp_160mastery_120int,enchant=200int_100crit,reforge=crit_mastery back=xingho_breath_of_yulon,id=102246,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_60int,enchant=lightweave_embroidery_3,reforge=crit_hit chest=akoliks_acidsoaked_robes,id=105604,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_160exp_160mastery_320mastery_180int,enchant=80all,reforge=crit_haste wrists=avools_ancestral_bracers,id=105591,upgrade=4,enchant=180int hands=chronomancer_gloves,id=99397,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_160exp_160mastery_120int,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii,reforge=crit_mastery waist=belt_of_ominous_trembles,id=105515,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_160hit_160mastery_320mastery_120int,reforge=hit_haste legs=leggings_of_furious_flame,id=105516,upgrade=4,gems=160hit_160mastery_160hit_160mastery_120int,enchant=285int_165crit feet=boneinlaid_sandals,id=105493,upgrade=4,gems=320mastery_60hit,enchant=140mastery finger1=signet_of_the_dinomancers,id=105606,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_60haste finger2=iyyokuks_hereditary_seal,id=105628,upgrade=4,reforge=hit_haste trinket1=purified_bindings_of_immerseus,id=105422,upgrade=4 trinket2=black_blood_of_yshaarj,id=105648,upgrade=4,reforge=haste_mastery main_hand=immaculately_preserved_wand,id=105594,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160mastery_60int,enchant=jade_spirit,reforge=crit_hit off_hand=revelations_of_yshaarj,id=105650,upgrade=4,gems=80int_160mastery_60int,enchant=165int

[Verraine]

The current SimC Frost BiS profile is using quite a few crit pieces(Immer helm, Thok robes). You don't really "waste" crit until you go far beyond 28%.

That's very interesting, because a couple of the gear swaps I'm considering are Hood of Swirling Senses in for Ebon Ritual Hood, and Akolik's Acid Soak Robes in for Chronomancer Robe. Hmmm...

[Mageski]

Simming my own gear, currently around 30% Crit and can't go lower, Crit seems to still keep up with Haste/Mastery on a +/- 1000 plot. As Komma said, definitely go for 28% at high gear level, but don't panic if you go above.

[Verraine]

From what I'm reading here it definitely looks like I should make the gear changes. My current ilvl is 584.

[Akraen]

It needs to be made clear that the reason why some crit items, i.e. Swirling Senses (immerseus: crit/mastery) are used over other items is because of the stat allocation. Since secondary1 = secondary2, the sum of both secondaries is greater than items where secondary 1 < secondary 2, or any inequal combination thereof.

Frost is in a neat situation where we can be flexible enough with our secondary distribution to gain a maximum amount of secondaries, so you go for the items where sec1 = sec2, or as close to equal as possible, resulting in a big secondary stat gain over just going for haste items, or just going for mastery items.

If you approach ilvl 589 start checking to see if the sum of your secondary stats exceeds 30k or not. Hint: it should

[Mageski]

It needs to be made clear that the reason why some crit items, i.e. Swirling Senses (immerseus: crit/mastery) are used over other items is because of the stat allocation. Since secondary1 = secondary2, the sum of both secondaries is greater than items where secondary 1 < secondary 2, or any inequal combination thereof.

Frost is in a neat situation where we can be flexible enough with our secondary distribution to gain a maximum amount of secondaries, so you go for the items where sec1 = sec2, or as close to equal as possible, resulting in a big secondary stat gain over just going for haste items, or just going for mastery items.

If you approach ilvl 589 start checking to see if the sum of your secondary stats exceeds 30k or not. Hint: it should

I am way over that at 586 and non-wf heroic PBoI (37405 total). Did you mean to say 40k?

[Akraen]

pre-amp

[Mageski]

34,814 then.

That number isn't so important though as the point, some items have more secondary stats than others. That's something I'll have to start looking at as I get off more off pieces.