Trinket Erratic Mentronome Frost mage hast Cap?

[Bónderøven]

Hoping to hear from some of your really good frost mage raiders out there

Is there a hast cap for frost mage?

I just got the Trinket Erratic Mentronome trinket 870 (Stacking up haste). But when i sim or use Raidbots with the trinket my strings tells my that haste is crap. Normaly haste and Crit is my best stats for my mage.
I always run my raids with TV but chance my talent splitting ice, frozen touch and so on depending what boss im on.

Thise are my string from Raidbots
Crit = 13.32
Int = 13.25
Vers = 1131
Haste 10.23
Mastery = 6.81

Should a chance gear and remove som haste and go all inn on the Crit?

Withput foodbuff and flask this is my stats

Crit 25.15%
Haste 26.50%
Mastery 37.58%
Leech 0.00%
Versatility 3.81%
Avoidance 0.00%

Hope to hear from some of you guys

[Saróx]

The main reason why SIM is telling you that haste is shit, is becuase your quite far off the shatter cap at 33% crit. If your Crit and Haste dont follow pretty much equally or crit is ahead, sim is going to tell you that you need to get some crit ASAP or your loosing dps. If you drop lets say 2% haste into crit or mastery, you will see haste gains alot more value again, but not nessesarily making the stat dump worth it, instead of just improving gear by ilvl and general increases.

So my tip to you would be, try and sim yourself with some difirent gear on, and see what results in the highest posible dps range, and not just most optimal stat weights since the two dont nessesarily goes hand in hand. But if you can dump some Mastery and gain either some more Haste or Crit, whilist not dropping ILVL then id do that aswell since ILVL means alot now with INT being valued so high.

[Drozzy]

Haste is showing low for you for 2 big reasons:
1) Crit is our best stat, up until softcap (33.34%). Having too much crit isn't great, but generally I've found that aiming to have about 2/3 as much haste rating as I have crit rating gives similar stat weights for both. The shorter your Icy Veins, the higher value you'll get from haste. So unless you're playing optimally at sim levels, haste will actually be worth more than the sims are telling you.

2) Haste trinkets, as well as up-time of Icy Veins, both devalue haste a significant amount. This makes sense, because the haste doesn't show in your idle stats, but you have it during the fight. Erratic Metronome isn't bad because your haste scaling is bad, your haste scaling is bad because you have Metronome.

We don't have a haste cap, our only cap is our crit cap. But, versatility can actually start being worth quite a lot as you get higher and higher secondary stats. I've had my versatility scaling pass haste AND int before. When gearing, I'd recommend prioritizing crit gear until you're near cap, but considering all stats except mastery as strong stats. A mostly-vers/some-haste piece would probably outperform a mostly-mastery/some-crit piece.

[Frosted]

Haste is showing low for you for 2 big reasons:
1) Crit is our best stat, up until softcap (33.34%). Having too much crit isn't great, but generally I've found that aiming to have about 2/3 as much haste rating as I have crit rating gives similar stat weights for both. The shorter your Icy Veins, the higher value you'll get from haste. So unless you're playing optimally at sim levels, haste will actually be worth more than the sims are telling you.

2) Haste trinkets, as well as up-time of Icy Veins, both devalue haste a significant amount. This makes sense, because the haste doesn't show in your idle stats, but you have it during the fight. Erratic Metronome isn't bad because your haste scaling is bad, your haste scaling is bad because you have Metronome.

We don't have a haste cap, our only cap is our crit cap. But, versatility can actually start being worth quite a lot as you get higher and higher secondary stats. I've had my versatility scaling pass haste AND int before. When gearing, I'd recommend prioritizing crit gear until you're near cap, but considering all stats except mastery as strong stats. A mostly-vers/some-haste piece would probably outperform a mostly-mastery/some-crit piece.

WotD is also a contributor. It's essentially a large haste multiplier, meaning that Frost spends time GCD/FB cast time capped while under the effects of IV+TW+WotD or IV+WotD



After shatter cap. Stacking haste and it's effect on haste weights and vers. In the process of collecting data to improve the image, but you get the idea - stacking haste slowly DRs itself below Vers in value due to the presence of high haste proc trinkets and WotD.

[Katsumi]

(...)
We don't have a haste cap, our only cap is our crit cap. But, versatility can actually start being worth quite a lot as you get higher and higher secondary stats. I've had my versatility scaling pass haste AND int before. When gearing, I'd recommend prioritizing crit gear until you're near cap, but considering all stats except mastery as strong stats. A mostly-vers/some-haste piece would probably outperform a mostly-mastery/some-crit piece.

WotD is also a contributor. It's essentially a large haste multiplier, meaning that Frost spends time GCD/FB cast time capped while under the effects of IV+TW+WotD or IV+WotD

I'm a bit confused. So if there's a cap on cast time for GCD/FB shouldn't that translate into a haste value cap? I'm using Metronome + WotD + Nightwell Arcanum set + Sephuz and if I get a disco proc during IV + TW I'm playing Rachmaninoff. Am I wasting some of the potential speed?

[Norrinir]

GCD cannot go below 0.75, which happens at 100% haste. If you add more haste after that, it does nothing to your instant cast spells. Frostbolt stops benefiting from haste at 166.7% (at that point, cast time = GCD).

However, you don't spend most of the fight GCD capped, so it's not enough to just make haste bad. After all, you only need around 18% haste to hit GCD cap with Icy Veins and Time Warp, but haste is still good after 18%.

Haste slowly loses value the more time you spend GCD capped, but the only real breakpoints are pretty far away: 100% haste is one (37500 haste rating) and 100% haste with IV is the other (20193 haste rating).

[Katsumi]

Thank you Norrinir for the quick and concise answer, that helps a lot.

I agree about still going for haste in general, but do you think it would make sense in my case to delay Icy Veins to the second half of Time Warp so that the procs, which usually go off within the first ten seconds, are not wasted entirely?

[Norrinir]

You absolutely don't want to delay Icy Veins.

And all RPPM stuff is reset at the start of the fight as if it just proced (i.e. time since last proc is set to 0 and time since last proc attempt is set to 0 as well), so procs are not more likely to happen at the start of the fight.

[Potaetoe]

This is a bit of a side topic, but did anyone mess with synching IV and MI in the APL at all?