Double Ice Lancing and world ms/input tolerance

[sawbossnl]

Heey how do i know what ms tolerance i need so i can dubble ice lance and not do a 3e one not empowered?

Like how do i know what the right ms toleramce is for me ?

[ezekielyo]

Heey how do i know what ms tolerance i need so i can dubble ice lance and not do a 3e one not empowered?

Like how do i know what the right ms toleramce is for me ?

Lower it until you don't do the third

[sawbossnl]

Heey how do i know what ms tolerance i need so i can dubble ice lance and not do a 3e one not empowered?

Like how do i know what the right ms toleramce is for me ?

Lower it until you don't do the third

So i gotta test in on a dummy ? My ms is mostly 13-20 so now my question how do i test this ? Is there some addon/weakaura for it to track it if i did 2x more then 1mil dammage with icelance ?

[Veígar]

For double IL, should SI still be used, or should FT be used for potential 100% IV time? I'd like an answer for both ST and multi target fights if that makes a difference.

[Visk]

For double IL, should SI still be used, or should FT be used for potential 100% IV time? I'd like an answer for both ST and multi target fights if that makes a difference.

For me the best way to check which talent build to use is to see the tending talents for frost mages on particular bosses on warcraftlogs. One interesting thing I noticed is that most mages who have the legendary gloves play exclusively with splitting ice and unstable magic (if they do not have the legendary belt). I got the gloves myself 2 days ago and after I tested them in a normal run with this specific build on every boss, I did not have much trouble holding 100% IV uptime (except in extreme cases with 2 FoF procs from a frozen orb...) that keeping in mind that I double IL every time possible.

[Veígar]

For double IL, should SI still be used, or should FT be used for potential 100% IV time? I'd like an answer for both ST and multi target fights if that makes a difference.

For me the best way to check which talent build to use is to see the tending talents for frost mages on particular bosses on warcraftlogs. One interesting thing I noticed is that most mages who have the legendary gloves play exclusively with splitting ice and unstable magic (if they do not have the legendary belt). I got the gloves myself 2 days ago and after I tested them in a normal run with this specific build on every boss, I did not have much trouble holding 100% IV uptime (except in extreme cases with 2 FoF procs from a frozen orb...) that keeping in mind that I double IL every time possible.

That's the problem, I check WCL and there are varying inconsistencies on the top parsers. I.e. for Krosus, most use bracers and ring but the top is bracer and gloves. For talents, I don't understand why for a ST fight like Krosus why they aren't all using UM, there are 3 with AG. There are also 7 SI players and 3 FT players. Looking across NH, most are using SI. Is it possible to get 100% uptime with SI?

I have all legs except Ice Time so that's not an issue, and I've been using gloves and bracers.

[ColdasIce]

That's the problem, I check WCL and there are varying inconsistencies on the top parsers. I.e. for Krosus, most use bracers and ring but the top is bracer and gloves. For talents, I don't understand why for a ST fight like Krosus why they aren't all using UM, there are 3 with AG. There are also 7 SI players and 3 FT players. Looking across NH, most are using SI. Is it possible to get 100% uptime with SI?

I have all legs except Ice Time so that's not an issue, and I've been using gloves and bracers.

Because not all top parses are the result of people actually trying to parse at no.1, so they might save a tome instead of trying too hard. However, since many of these players are extremely good and geared, they will probably try to do as much DPS as possible regardless. Also some parses might be the result of people trying stuff around and just getting lucky.

As for SI, it's used often even in almost pure single target fights because of 2 reasons. First, the small buff to IL, and second the chance to cleave on something, as minor as it might be. Overall, SI has the best potential, while at the same time being the most risky (for Krosus), as bad RNG will most surely mean early loss of IV. But very good mages on farm content will probably just risk it and go with what potentially offers the best DPS, and hope on great RNG to augment their skills. AG is also a risk, as there's a good chance that in a very competent guild you won't be able to Blizzard a cluster of ads, but if you do... yet again, potential DPS increase, risky, but if you want a top parse, risking is how you have to go for it.

The top Krosus parse does seem an intentional attempt at ranking though. Tome used, augment rune, but what I find funny is that the guy was probably trying wrists+hands, and was used more with ring+wrists, as he tried to lust his 2nd Icy Veins. He did manage a 90% IV uptime and averaged 1.6M/IL cast with 96% crits, so he also had very good itemized gear, skill, great procs (looks like he only had to shimmerlance once...), and he was definitely in melee with so many 2xIL combos, a luxury very few mages are able to enjoy during Mythic Krosus.

[dioneslol]

I almost never use FT anymore,

The only cases I would say it can be good is,

Krosus if you dont have the ring or cant double IL.

Star boy if you go with gloves

Trilliax if you have the gloves and the fight takes more than 3 minutes

With double IL SI gets so much more value, and you dont even notice the fewer finger procs

[Causese]

rip 2x il on ptr

https://gfycat.com/SplendidUnsteadyArmyant" target="_blank

was nice to have known u

[Katsumi]

Any data on total DPS impact yet? Combined with the TV duration nerf that doesn't sound good at all...

[Xinder]

Wait, do we know if it's actually dead and not something like PTR not keeping your same MS lag tolerance setting as Live? Did you check that it was set to the same as you have it on live? Is it possible due to the PTR servers you might have a higher MS than live and the tolerance wasn't enough?

[Causese]

Wait, do we know if it's actually dead and not something like PTR not keeping your same MS lag tolerance setting as Live? Did you check that it was set to the same as you have it on live? Is it possible due to the PTR servers you might have a higher MS than live and the tolerance wasn't enough?

no it's dead and all over the discord channel

you can only pull it off with shimmer
it worked with 50% haste + shimmer, no idea how much you actually need

they also added t20 sets to the npc (tombataur)

[Veígar]

Well that's somewhat of a relief, I was going to try to attempt learning double IL too which was why I was asking.

I had set the latency to 75, and it felt like I had input lag at times, tried doing it on H Eli, and felt like I was doing badly. My ingame latency is 63/64.

If it still works with shimmer, isn't it just harder to do? Or is it simply not worth it anymore?

[Causese]

Well that's somewhat of a relief, I was going to try to attempt learning double IL too which was why I was asking.

I had set the latency to 75, and it felt like I had input lag at times, tried doing it on H Eli, and felt like I was doing badly. My ingame latency is 63/64.

If it still works with shimmer, isn't it just harder to do? Or is it simply not worth it anymore?

it works just fine with shimmer, pretty much same as live
shimmerlance will most likely still be a thing if it goes live

i wouldn't bother too much with latency, i have 23ms ingame and have mine set to 400 (standard) and can double il just fine. (on live)
takes some time to get used to

[Causese]

update:

this is pretty much my testing on 2x il
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4eoeDRX5E" target="_blank

apparently you can 2x il if a) you end up close to the target's hitbox and b) you're running during flurry+2x il
haste above 100% also seems to make it more difficult to double IL (not sure if that's just a theory, they did some math in mage discord)
standing still and 2x il doesn't work (regardless of latency)

you might also rely on run speed for higher chance to 2x il (had sephuz equipped)
but it worked w/o too from most distances

it might not work at all on big hitboxes (basically any boss)
need some testing on that

[Burnthemall]

Is it possible somehow to triple IL with very high haste (e.g. IV/BL/ WotD/ elisande buff ) now on live? I still do not have WotD or chronoshard so just I am curious.

Thank you for reply

S.

[Zulandia]

Is it possible somehow to triple IL with very high haste (e.g. IV/BL/ WotD/ elisande buff ) now on live? I still do not have WotD or chronoshard so just I am curious.

Thank you for reply

S.

Technically with the reduced global cooldown from time dilation effects (Elis/Guldan). The margin is slim enough you basically should never attempt it though.

[Nemo]

update:

this is pretty much my testing on 2x il
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4eoeDRX5E" target="_blank

apparently you can 2x il if a) you end up close to the target's hitbox and b) you're running during flurry+2x il
haste above 100% also seems to make it more difficult to double IL (not sure if that's just a theory, they did some math in mage discord)
standing still and 2x il doesn't work (regardless of latency)

you might also rely on run speed for higher chance to 2x il (had sephuz equipped)
but it worked w/o too from most distances

it might not work at all on big hitboxes (basically any boss)
need some testing on that

So what is the verdict? With 2xIL usage being very limited and the TV Nerf whats the damage to the spec in 7.2.5?

[skeletonpoop]

i have 7,021 haste on ptr, can confirm double il worked for me with lust/IV when i casted FB from about ~10yds from target and casted double IL while running towards target (in a way where at the 2nd IL you are pretty much just arriving at the target)

i could get it fairly often but by no means every time, not sure how practical this would be

[kaqau]

update:

this is pretty much my testing on 2x il
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4eoeDRX5E" target="_blank

apparently you can 2x il if a) you end up close to the target's hitbox and b) you're running during flurry+2x il
haste above 100% also seems to make it more difficult to double IL (not sure if that's just a theory, they did some math in mage discord)
standing still and 2x il doesn't work (regardless of latency)

you might also rely on run speed for higher chance to 2x il (had sephuz equipped)
but it worked w/o too from most distances

it might not work at all on big hitboxes (basically any boss)
need some testing on that

So what is the verdict? With 2xIL usage being very limited and the TV Nerf whats the damage to the spec in 7.2.5?

Not much, because TV also got a buff and we will be using 2 piece NH and 4 piece ToS. Frost is still the best spec single target by a lot.