[6.0] Alternative frost "rotation".

[Dutchmagoz]

This will be a short post about some "new" findings about frost mages in high gear.

Not using ice lance procs during bloodlust is a dps gain over using ice lance procs, at ALL levels of haste.

This only works when using the unstable magic talent, AND ONLY ON SINGLE TARGET, and you need KTT trinket.

It is a 25%+ dps increase to not use ice lances during your burst.

Keep in mind, if your mastery is below ~90% raid buffed, you SHOULD use your ice lances procs outside of icy veins / meta gem / bloodlust. But ignore them during any of those buffs. Use the spreadsheet below to see if this works for your character

The maths behind it if you're curious: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0" target="_blank

Download it and change the stats to what you prefer / your own stats to compare. FB+FFB DPET is what you need to compare to ice lance. Turn on/off certain buffs to see what parts of the fight you should or shouldn't use IL.

[gallamann]

Did you not include a Meta/Bloodlust DPS number? Because 27431*1.2 = 32917

Otherwise 27431/28148 is ~2.6% gain

[Dutchmagoz]

Did you not include a Meta/Bloodlust DPS number? Because 27431*1.2 = 32917

Otherwise 27431/28148 is ~2.6% gain

The sim isn't optimized for no ice lances. I'm getting the 20% from the spreadsheet.

[Skrabble]

HAHAHAHAHA

[Mishh]

Does this apply to short fights aswell?

I have a hard time seeing it be better than 4ish icelances in a frostbomb on a 29 sec fight.

Or if you only cast Frostbomb on 2x FoF procs so u allways get atleast 2 lances in.

[Mumrit]

Pretty interesting for the time being

As stated though for those wondering, this requires a specific set of parameters under the current patch, which means it won't be applicable in WoD.

[Sturmcantor]

So I am seeing an increase in dps in SimC appending this : &!(talent.unstable_magic.enabled&(buff.icy_veins.up|buff.tempus_repit.up|buff.bloodlust.up)) to each ice lance line even on 2 targets. (Not a big increase, but definitely an increase). I have 2690 sp, 33.17% crit, 87.74% mastery, 20.57% multistrike, 41.44% haste, MWF PBoI.

Screwing with the spreadsheet formulas to increase IL by 50%, mastery on FB/FFB by 50%, and UM by 100% (changes for 2 targets), it looks like it's a gain with IV + either haste buff + UM for my character, but not any 1 buff individually. The difference between the two conditions (IV + haste vs any buff) in SimC on 2 targets is within margin of error at 25k iterations.

Also, I was playing with spreadsheet #s and to me it looks like the 5% gain for not using IL even outside of buffs with UM with crit cap is 107% mastery, not 80%, while the breakeven mastery amount is 97% mastery with crit cap.

@Mishh
See the note about only applying with Unstable Magic.

[Mishh]

So it doesnt outperform Frost Bomb?

[aycheff]

Posted the same thing over at mmoc, not sure which would get looked at. Anyway:

If hero is used on the pull, should Frozen Orb be saved til after hero is over since we're not using FoF Icelance during these times (lust/hero) we wouldn't be using the FoF proc generated by Frozen Orb? Or is the damage alone generated by Frozen Orb reason enough to use it even though we're suspending FoF Icelance usage during lust? Would the same thing carry over to Meta proc if Frozen Orb is coming off cooldown would you save it until ur Meta proc is over?

[Sturmcantor]

So it doesnt outperform Frost Bomb?

UM beats Frost Bomb by 600 dps on a 100s fight sim for me single target, without the UM Ice Lance optimization.

On a 30s fight sim it beats Frost Bomb by 700 dps without the optimization. Of course both talent combos have insane variance (22k dps range on a 46k dps) on a 30s fight, so in practice you will definitely see either one on top based on who gets smiled upon by the RNG gods.

[nathyiel]

Like I say on tweeter, it's interesting and only logical. The change have been done with level 100 in mind, with perk etc. So extreme situation at level 90 even been taken into account at all.

What might be interesting is to find out if it can be done at level 100 or not.

[Dutchmagoz]

Yes, this beats frost bomb + ice lances, even on short fights.

Don't forget the part where it reads "you need UM and KTT".

[Mishh]

Cool, sick find. (y)

Does this change stat priorites since we never benefit from shatter?

Also, might Ice Nova be more valueble than UM on short fights?

[Israfael]

Wasn't it like this even in 5.4, the only difference, as far as i can remember, is that the cut-off for mastery was much higher (100% or 120%) than this. Should definitely try it in the raid

[Dutchmagoz]

Cool, sick find. (y)

Does this change stat priorites since we never benefit from shatter?

Also, might Ice Nova be more valueble than UM on short fights?

We still benefit from shatter, since FFB is still really high damage. Also more crit on frostbolt doesn't hurt.

Ice nova is not more valuable than UM on short fights from my findings.

[Vexra]

Holy crap. Frost is already boring WITH Icelance. How the hell should someone play that without dying of boredom

[durrtygoodz]

Wasn't it like this even in 5.4, the only difference, as far as i can remember, is that the cut-off for mastery was much higher (100% or 120%) than this. Should definitely try it in the raid

In 5.4 we needed 130% mastery and 50% haste. I.e. impossible.

[gallamann]

Did you not include a Meta/Bloodlust DPS number? Because 27431*1.2 = 32917

Otherwise 27431/28148 is ~2.6% gain

The sim isn't optimized for no ice lances. I'm getting the 20% from the spreadsheet.

Ah, thx Dutch.

[sogasm]

If hero is used on the pull, should Frozen Orb be saved til after hero is over since we're not using FoF Icelance during these times (lust/hero) we wouldn't be using the FoF proc generated by Frozen Orb? Or is the damage alone generated by Frozen Orb reason enough to use it even though we're suspending FoF Icelance usage during lust? Would the same thing carry over to Meta proc if Frozen Orb is coming off cooldown would you save it until ur Meta proc is over?

Bumb.

Would love to known what you pro guys think about this?

[durrtygoodz]

The single target fights (Seige, IJ, Malk) are far too short to delay orb.