PC+FB on icy-veins

[Azo]

Third, Frost Bomb Icon Frost Bomb should be placed on the boss before activating the Crystal. Spending a Global Cooldown to cast Frost Bomb either on the boss or the Crystal after the Crystal's activation results in a DPS loss.

-http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-mage ... -abilities

I don't understand.

If I put frost bomb on boss I do so with the intention to ice lance the boss and thus not attacking the prismatic crystal except for cleave and frozen orb.

To me it would make more sense to put down PC cast FB on it and spam IL on the bombed PC. That way your IL and the spliting ice cleave from them get 10% extra damage.

Do FB not get affected by the 10% bonus damage from PC?

Just skip FB when puting PC I can understand. But put FB on boss put down PC and either not attack the crystal or attack the crystal but spending a global to FB boss right before not attacking boss doens't make any sense. If PC is that bad that it's not worth attacking it shouldn't be a usefull talent.

[gillon]

Is it assumed that splitting ice is being used? I'm not sure if the split IL on boss will trigger FB though. I'd like to hear some opinions on this matter as well, my simulations doesn't really correlate to some of the stuff I've read on IV.

[Skrabble]

Splitting ice does proc Frost Bomb.

The way it works is that the initial bomb explosion damages the boss, and the AoE cleaves onto the crystal that in turn cleaves it back to the original target +10% dmg. Which it indeed is a DPS increase.

This is strictly single target, though, since you can't really direct where you want your 2nd ice lance to go.

All in all having an extra GCD on crystal is good.

[nathyiel]

This part should spicify it's for T17. The bonus increase the value of every IL during Fo to the point that the situation discribed in the guide.

[Stressball]

With the seemingly tiny range for splitting ice now, intended or not, you need very precise PC placement and essentially no boss movement for it to be worth the extra cast.

Have had a lot of trouble getting IL to cleave properly, frustrating as hell.

[nathyiel]

After some test, the "bug" seem to have been resolved. But compared to MoP, its range is half that it was.

But I don't think the actual value is good enough to keep this behavior except for the very few boss that don't move at all.

[gameorg]

Beside that Bot post i have a real question:

What is actually the ideal spot for PC placement?

Is it in the middle of the boss?
slightly ahead?
Does it even matter as long as it is in the range of the hit box?

[TheHeretic91]

My understanding is that it should be placed right on top of the boss.

[Berlinia]

It's easy if the boss doesn't move. Just put the PC RIGHT ON TOP of the boss. If the tanks are fuckers and move him then yea gg wp go cry

[Iceshatter]

Okay, my calculations might be totally off due to lack of raid buffs and debuffs on boss, but still, here goes:
My spell power is 4413
Lets say my ice lance does 7060 in a raid environment.

Ice Lance on boss will do 7060 damage and 3530 on cystal.
Frost bomb on boss will do 5295 damage on boss and 3310 damage on crystal.
The crystal will reflect 3883 damage back to boss from ice lance and 3640 gets reflected from bomb.
For a total of 19878 damage.

If you frost bomb the crystal instead:
Ice lance will do 7060 damage on crystal, of which 7766 will get reflected to boss.
Ice lance cleave will deal 3530 damage to boss.
Frost bomb on cystal will do 5295 damage to cystal of which 5825 will be reflected to boss.
Frost bomb cleave will deal 3310 damage to boss, aplified by 10% for 3641 damage.
For a total of 20762 damage.

[Rinoa]

Keep in mind that casting Frost Bomb on the PC also gives up a global which could be spent on IL/FFB/FB into the PC, depending on the situation.

[Pappus]

If you put the frostbomb on the boss you do not need to target the boss.

To trigger frostbomb you NEED to have FoF procs - so spamming your ILs randomly will not help you generate FB triggers.

To be precise: Ice lances the profit from shatter, which is indeed FoF for us. So the little lance (splitting ice) will trigger the frost bomb aswell. So you actually just nuke the crystal and if you happen to have a FoF proc it will trigger the bomb aswell.

It is probably just a minor thing and will likely just be reasoned in having less than a gcd on the crystal if you put it on the crystal.

Edit: The frostbomb cleave is also not amplified if you put it on the crystal. The cleave never hits the crystal if you put it on the crystal. It hits all other targets and in order for damage to be amplified it needs to be dealt to the crystal.

[Frosted]

Okay, my calculations might be totally off due to lack of raid buffs and debuffs on boss, but still, here goes:
My spell power is 4413
Lets say my ice lance does 7060 in a raid environment.

Ice Lance on boss will do 7060 damage and 3530 on cystal.
Frost bomb on boss will do 5295 damage on boss and 3310 damage on crystal.
The crystal will reflect 3883 damage back to boss from ice lance and 3640 gets reflected from bomb.
For a total of 19878 damage.

If you frost bomb the crystal instead:
Ice lance will do 7060 damage on crystal, of which 7766 will get reflected to boss.
Ice lance cleave will deal 3530 damage to boss.
Frost bomb on cystal will do 5295 damage to cystal of which 5825 will be reflected to boss.
Frost bomb cleave will deal 3310 damage to boss, aplified by 10% for 3641 damage.
For a total of 20762 damage.

You cannot cleave onto the crystal. In both scenarios, you are ice lancing the crystal - the only difference is in where the primary explosion damage is occuring (on PC or on boss). The primary gain in DPS is from additional uptime on the crystal with which to use ice lance (and, since you are probably FOing before PC, less munched FoF-ILs due to having Fbomb already in place)

tldr your calculations are off, and in addition to that are ignoring the factor of DPS uptime on DPS (aka the time component of DPS).

[Iceshatter]

The primary gain in DPS is from additional uptime on the crystal

I understand now.

[Xervan]

So if I'm understanding correctly, you place the frost bomb on the boss before casting PC then ice lance the crystal. The ice lance cleave will still trigger the bomb for the same amount as a normal ice lance hit?

[Frosted]

Yes