Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

[Norrinir]

Drozzy: Since Legion, Frozen Orb procs FoF per wave instead of per target. This means you get the same amount of FoF no matter how many enemies you're hitting (as long as you're hitting at least one).

[Matinee]

To answer your second question: we were doing Frostbolt -> Flurry -> Ice Lance because if you stand far enough, both Ice Lance and Frostbolt get the Shatter bonus. With the changes in 7.1.5, this combo became DPS neutral (or very slightly DPS negative), with 2set is becomes DPS negative.

This is new information to me, especially the second part with the 2set. Would you mind going into a little more detail for me?

Edit: Sorry the post 7.1.5 part of it is news. Not the Frostbolt> Flurry> Ice Lance part. I understood the original combo.

[Norrinir]

This is a combination of two factors: Chain Reaction nerf and Brain Freeze munching.

Chain Reaction at 10%/stack means the guaranteed crit is far less impactful.

If you have Brain Freeze up and cast another Frostbolt, there's a chance that this extra Frostbolt procs another Brain Freeze thus making you waste one. Without 2set, you waste roughly 21% Brain Freezes this way, with 2set, you waste 31%. If you don't insist on casting Frostbolt before every Flurry, you waste much less BFs.

[Venno]

Wow thank you so much Norrinir & Drozzy. Hugely helpful and detailed responses

Seconded. Those responses gave me so much more insight into how to play, about things I never even considered.

Thanks all!

[Voreg]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=259213/patc ... nuary-13th" target="_blank

Fixed a bug where Flurry's missiles were all launching at the same time, making it difficult to take advantage of Winter's Chill with a follow-up Ice Lance.

With only 27% haste I am finding that with Icy Veins and Time Warp up I can Shatter two Ice Lances after a Flurry.

[Venno]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=259213/patc ... nuary-13th

Fixed a bug where Flurry's missiles were all launching at the same time, making it difficult to take advantage of Winter's Chill with a follow-up Ice Lance.

With only 27% haste I am finding that with Icy Veins and Time Warp up I can Shatter two Ice Lances after a Flurry.

Oh nice!!

[Goldenvale]

Can anyone explain how some people can get ice lance to crit up to 1m? I've got all the damage upgrades for ice lance but the bracers but I can never get more than 700k. Do the 18% bracers add that much damage? My int is at 42k flasked with 6% versatility.

[Venno]

Can anyone explain how some people can get ice lance to crit up to 1m? I've got all the damage upgrades for ice lance but the bracers but I can never get more than 700k. Do the 18% bracers add that much damage? My int is at 42k flasked with 6% versatility.

Chilled to the core, max bracers stacks, max chain reaction stacks, probably splitting ice and lonely winter. I was hitting over 1m per IL on target dummy with that, usually during my second icy veins (the only time I had everything active at the same time).

[pleblius]

I decided to sim out some options on using Blizzard on ST.
I used the default T19M_NH profile. For default talent options, I used BC_IF_FT_UM_TV. I left everything the same except for swapping AG in for UM otherwise.
I changed the APL to always Blizzard where it previously only did with 5 stacks of the buff or on multiple enemies and compared it.



Not as much of a disparity as I thought there would be, as long as you take AG.


Edit: Forgot to include standard APL with belt and AG. Not as good as standard APL with belt and UM.

[Pragmatica]

Thanks for this guide and info. I have been playing frost since Legion release, and was not looking forward to another huge change to rotations. My raid group is pretty casual, but I still need to be competitive for my own sanity. Looks like the changes aren't going to be much of an issue, especially for someone that is used to playing BC/TV during the last 2 "fixes." I was worried about the change to Ebonbolt, Blizzard and Frozen Touch because they provided so many FoF. I was pretty used to 90-100% uptimes of IV, so it is going to be a little weird overall.

[Habibikareem]

Amazing guide!
I switched to frost after fire just got boring for me. with these changes to frost im confused on how people are getting uptime on Icy veins to even last 20 more seconds.Am i suppose to fish for chain reactions during icy veins still? or do i just dump all FoF and BF -> IL during Icy veins to get more uptime.
I have shard and boots for legendarys and running :
BC - MI - FT - UM - TV for single target
thanks so much for help

[pleblius]

Unless you're at risk of your FoF duration running out, your Icy Veins falling off, you have BF, or one of your CD's is coming back up, you should generally try to fish as much as possible. If you have an FoF that isn't getting munched, that Ice Lance is going to add to the duration no matter when you cast it, might as well get 30% extra damage if you can.

[pleblius]

It would also appear that, even with AG talented, it's still not worth it to use Blizzard on ST. The default APL suggests that we would.

[Goldenvale]

Can anyone explain how some people can get ice lance to crit up to 1m? I've got all the damage upgrades for ice lance but the bracers but I can never get more than 700k. Do the 18% bracers add that much damage? My int is at 42k flasked with 6% versatility.

Chilled to the core, max bracers stacks, max chain reaction stacks, probably splitting ice and lonely winter. I was hitting over 1m per IL on target dummy with that, usually during my second icy veins (the only time I had everything active at the same time).

I'm using all of those but I still can't get them to crit over 700k. Here's an example of someone critting up to 950k even without the bracers: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bR ... &source=12" target="_blank

[Geemer]

Frost has always been my main spec, and I've been playing TV since Legion so it is nice to get the buffs making the spec more competitive. I switched from FN to SI since I do more M+ and I am getting used to it now (big increase in dps helped me get used to it). Switching from UM to AG was an easy switch, but I am struggling with using FB instead of AG.

Outside of IV uptime (i.e. normal rotation) I don't know when I need to hold FoF so I can cast FB first. Is there a rule of thumb or rotation cues to use so I know when I should cast FB and when I should just keep munching?

I assume that when IV is up I would never wait for FB and would always cast IL when FoF procs to maximize uptime. Is this also true, or are there situations where even then it pays to wait to cast FB first?

[Venno]

Can anyone explain how some people can get ice lance to crit up to 1m? I've got all the damage upgrades for ice lance but the bracers but I can never get more than 700k. Do the 18% bracers add that much damage? My int is at 42k flasked with 6% versatility.

Chilled to the core, max bracers stacks, max chain reaction stacks, probably splitting ice and lonely winter. I was hitting over 1m per IL on target dummy with that, usually during my second icy veins (the only time I had everything active at the same time).

I'm using all of those but I still can't get them to crit over 700k. Here's an example of someone critting up to 950k even without the bracers: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bR ... &source=12" target="_blank

How's your gear though?

[Goldenvale]

How's your gear though?

42k int, 33% crit, 26% haste, 5% versatility

[Venno]

How's your gear though?

42k int, 33% crit, 26% haste, 5% versatility

Better than mine.

No idea why you can't get them that high then. Unless you are missing something.

LW
SI
3x CR stacks
6x bracer stacks
Chilled to the core active

For all that to be active at once, it's generally my second IV.

Although I run BC over LW which brings the damage down a bit, but still good.

[Sheph]

Curious, are there any good action bars that doesn't cough all over the place when you have heroism + icy veins and cast instant icelances? ElvUI action bars at least makes it really hard to use as it gets confused about GCD lengths or something (a similar issue arises during multiple fireblasts in fire)? I have a hard time dumping 3x FoF => Flurry => Ice Lance without either munching something OR launching one too many Ice Lances as those 5 instants with so much haste confuses ElvUI it seems.

Alternatively I guess I need to set up some GCD monitoring WA's for this spec.

[gebik]

Hello,

I am curious in m+ with frost. I am somehow competive, but I would like be better.

I tried many setups, currently I am running:
Ice nova+ Comet storm+UG
IF - RoP is time lose, in aoe I usually had a lot of FoF - that was 7.1

I saw analysis that casting 1 ice lance is same as AG talent. with 2 icelances into Frost bomb you make AG talent garbage.
Anyway in 7.1 I didnt had time to maintaim FB, dump IL so I went UM instead of FB.

How you do m+? Is spliting ice better then IF, which makes bliizzard and CS better?